Should there be a Kurdistan?

[Ar-Cunin]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: quote: Originally posted by Ar-Cunin: Turkey will give up land when pigs fly and hell freezes over - and not one moment before.

Dangle some EU membership before them..[/QUOTE]Unfortunately the Iraq/Kurdistan Issue have nothing to do with the EU - that is USA's problem. Besides not even membeship would make them give up land - I think they would be mortally offended at the notion of having to 'bribe' their way into EU.

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: quote: Originally posted by The Hierophant: Pencil in a country here, rhetoricize a new ethnicity there. Short-term solutions to long-term problems. This violent nationalism and obsession with 'homeland' has people going off to shoot one another without a real, firm grasp over just what the @#!$ it is that they are fighting for. Most definitions of 'nation' are riddled with holes and imperfections. Get rid of this detrimental and outmoded political system and start fresh.

What is starting fresh? you talk of outmoded and detrimental.. but you don't offer any solutions... or alternatives..[/QUOTE]I guess starting fresh is just moving somewhere else and leaving all of the years of hatred and built-up residual crap behind. Let 'wherever' self-destruct and move onto somewhere new.
Works for me [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Totally right.. the world would have to be a much larger place or have a lot less people to start fresh like i think you mean.. And having a lot less people is always a possibility.

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: simply stated: What is the problem?

the problem is people being of such mind as to kill for the sake of disagreement. Whether it be of religious, national, political differences. Whatever.
Being of the desire to kill for one's beliefs is not something I agree with, but I will not kill anyone who says otherwise...[/QUOTE]Me to. Why don't others have this attitude?

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Ar-Cunin: quote: Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: quote: Originally posted by Ar-Cunin: Turkey will give up land when pigs fly and hell freezes over - and not one moment before.

Dangle some EU membership before them..[/QUOTE]Unfortunately the Iraq/Kurdistan Issue have nothing to do with the EU - that is USA's problem. Besides not even membeship would make them give up land - I think they would be mortally offended at the notion of having to 'bribe' their way into EU.[/QUOTE]The Kurds definetly do have something to do with the EU imo! They have something to do with everyone.. and is not just the USA's problem.. it is every nation on Earth's problem.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.. is some quote from somewhere i have heard before.. not that the Turks are enemies of the West.. au contraire they are our friends, thus the west should keep them close... as with the Kurds...

numerous edits..

[ 12-28-2002, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Me to. Why don't others have this attitude?

I guess it's easy to get caught up in something that you're born into. Things have always been pretty peaceful where I live, and living in Canada I'd imagine you'd have had a relatively war-free life (a disgustingly sweeping assumption on my part I'll admit) too? People hold grudges, they hold grudges big time, especially when killing one another is involved. Personally I want no part in it. I've got my family, I've got my tribe, that's all I need. No religion, no politics, no nations. Just us, and anyone else that feels like offering an open hand instead of a fist.

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Me to. Why don't others have this attitude?

I guess it's easy to get caught up in something that you're born into. Things have always been pretty peaceful where I live, and living in Canada I'd imagine you'd have had a relatively war-free life (a disgustingly sweeping assumption on my part I'll admit) too? People hold grudges, they hold grudges big time, especially when killing one another is involved. Personally I want no part in it. I've got my family, I've got my tribe, that's all I need. No religion, no politics, no nations. Just us, and anyone else that feels like offering an open hand instead of a fist.[/QUOTE]Totally war and strife free life the closest war has come to me is Gulf War on CNN.. Canada is way up here with Big Brother just right here a little south.. and New Zealand.. Brother also has Aircraft Carriers.. so if need be.. deployment in your neck of the woods can be arranged. The place that you are born into dictates what a large part of your life will be. Those who brought you into the world dictate another large part.

Well if you have your tribe and family.. just you and those that will join.. where does that leave everyone else.. Is it the duty of everyone to help everyone else even if it means self sacrifice?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Me to. Why don't others have this attitude?

I guess it's easy to get caught up in something that you're born into. Things have always been pretty peaceful where I live, and living in Canada I'd imagine you'd have had a relatively war-free life (a disgustingly sweeping assumption on my part I'll admit) too? People hold grudges, they hold grudges big time, especially when killing one another is involved. Personally I want no part in it. I've got my family, I've got my tribe, that's all I need. No religion, no politics, no nations. Just us, and anyone else that feels like offering an open hand instead of a fist.[/QUOTE]You mention family and tribe. Politics exist in both. Fists exist in both. Brothers have fought brothers before now.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Well if you have your tribe and family, just you and those that will join.. where does that leave everyone else? Is it the duty of everyone to help everyone else even if it means self sacrifice?

Totally agree. This is the foundation of human society. But, "where you stand depends on where you sit."

[johnny]

Yes, they have the right to a country of their own.

[Djinn Raffo]

Why do the Kurds deserve their own independant nation?

-Because of persecution in Iraq and Turkey and Iran..
-Ethnic and religious differences..
-what else?

If they should get a nation based on the ethnic differences between them and the leaders and majorities of those other countries.. Should not every ethnically diverse and even religiously diverse peoples of the world have their own states.. and even idealogically different peoples have their own nation as well?

Should the Kurds instead have a major hand in what the new government will be in Iraq and not an independant and seperate country? Some proportional representation that you would hope to be not just be a paper tiger but actually have real power in the government..

Obviously their are hotspots in the world and redrawing maps might be a sound solution. imo I think Africa is in need of some new borders as well as parts of South East Asia. And in Canada this country has come pretty close to breaking up in the recent past and it's still a hot topic where different peoples want to go different ways..

But if the west plays a hand in redrawing the borders of the Middle East.. should the west then not play a part in redrawing the maps of the other war-torn places on the Earth?

[ 12-28-2002, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]