Mom Laden?

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by lord_gabriel:
...well, i think beeing part of a nation that started more than 25 Wars in its history (and USA's history is less than 300 Years), should not make you proud (not to mention that most wars have been started by the us)...

...and still the us are provoking war in the world (e.g. china)...

...and am not sure about it, but might it be possible that the US Government actually likes beeing in the state of war..?

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Which 25 wars were started by the US in our 225 year history? Could you name them, since you claim them?

I hope your not refering to our Revolutionary War? Which we did start but started to become a free and independant nation. No other nations have tried this?

The War of 1812? That was fought to further free ourselves from English rule as they had imposed an embargo and blockade of US ports to try to control our ability to freely trade with the other nations of the world. The English again marched on American soil and burned Washington.

The Mexican-American War? A dispute over the independant nation of Texas, in which Mexican troops in a border dispute attacked US troops.

The US Civil War? Which nations haven't fought amongst themselves?

The Spanish-American War? Brought on by the destruction of a American War vessel, Maine, which blew up in Havana Harbor.

World War I? Certainly not started by US. All of the European powers had been fighting amongst themselves, to greater or lesser degrees, for 15 years prior to the first declaration of war.

World War II? Certainly not started by US. Germany anyone?

The Korean War? Not started by US, and actually a UN effort.

The Vietnam War? Started in 1946 by French troops trying to reclaim lands taken by the Japanese in French Indochina during World War II. I don't support the US role in Vietnam, but I must say, at the time, the entire world was afraid of the spread of Soviet/Chinese communism.

Grenada? Not a war by any stretch of the word. After an assasination US students, civilians and assets were thought to be at risk, the US responded.

The Gulf War? Um....I believe Saddam Hussein started that one by invading Kuwait and threatening Saudi Arabia. Not just a US war, but a international military effort authorized by the UN.

The War on Terrorism? September 11th anyone....

I would like to point out that World War I & II, neither started by US, caused more death than all the other wars I've listed (and any you might want to add) combined.

Actually, history has proven the US is not particulary interested in starting wars. We don't want to be involved unless it directly affects US, so we tend to wait too long to enter conflicts. We have been pretty good at finishing them though.

China? They support our current efforts against terrorism because they have their own radical Muslim extremists in that area of the world. How are we promoting war in China? The "spy" plane over international waters....please.

You really shouldn't be "too sure" about the US government enjoying war. That's a vast over-simplification. One thing is sure though, we have never lacked the courage to protect ourselves.

I AM INCREDIBLY PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by lord_gabriel:
nachtrafe. i dont think that there is ANY reason to beproud to live in the usa. actually i think you should be ashamed of what your country does all over the world.

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Memnoch, I apologize to you and the other mods for my initial response to this inflammatory statement, but it was not only completely out of line "at face value", but further because this was not even regarding a statement made by nachtrafe. Nothing he said in the entire thread could have possible evoked this response. The only thing I can figure is that lg didn't like nachtrafe's pro-American sig.

Again, I apologize for responding to the bait, but it was too much.

[Garnet FalconDance]

::wildly clapping::

Tell us how it is, Bmann!!!!!

::standing ovation::

[Cloudbringer]

Ronn, right about now, YOU and your posts make me proud to be a fellow American. Thanks for the great response. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Sojourner]

Ronn_Bman,

Wow, where did you go to school? I'd like to commend your teachers for actually teaching history. [applauds]

[Morgan_Corbesant]

osama "ive been hiden" weres underwear? wouldnt his mother be killed for doing that stuff, i mean, the skin of her hand must show or something right?

[Morgan_Corbesant]

quote:

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Originally posted by lord_gabriel:
nachtrafe. i dont think that there is ANY reason to beproud to live in the usa. actually i think you should be ashamed of what your country does all over the world.

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so do you have reason to be proud of YOUR country? hitler was a maniac!! you talk about how we shouldnt HELP other countries? we only attacked them because they attacked US FIRST!!!!! how do you not see that? we HELP the world, when we INTERVEIN!!!! your country tried to take over the world. and failed i might add. so before you go and spout off your unfounded, hipocritical, just plain idiotic bulls**t, you should look in the mirror, see what America has done for this world, and see what yours has don TO it. thats just me though.

(and just for you............just think about the battle of Belleau Wood!!!!)


GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!
Corporal Bryson United States Marine Corps. Infantry

[Ronn_Bman]

Thanks for the comments Cloudy and Sojourner!

There are pro's and con's to all of the wars I mentioned and to the ones I missed. I'm sure someone with (or without) a history degree could spank me on my "generalizations".

We were expansionistic in the 1800s. It was cause for alarm after the Spanish-America war because that peace treaty gave US the Philippines, Puerto Rico, and several smaller Spanish controlled islands for monetary compensation (yes we agreed to pay cash). The vote to accept the treaty only passed by one vote because the Senate feared we were, ourselves, becoming "colonial".

We were isolationists who had no problem taking property in North America after the Mexican-American war (although again we did pay restitution), and our treatment of the American Indians was deplorable, but it's certainly not fair to claim the US has been a war mongering nation.

We are not the bane of the world's existance and never have been!

By the way, I went to public school (Go Raiders!), and had a bit of college,(short stays at SCC, RCC, UNC-W) but not enough. My motto is stay in school, RL can wait!

[Nachtrafe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:


Which 25 wars were started by the US in our 225 year history? Could you name them, since you claim them?

I hope your not refering to our Revolutionary War? Which we did start but started to become a free and independant nation. No other nations have tried this?

The War of 1812? That was fought to further free ourselves from English rule as they had imposed an embargo and blockade of US ports to try to control our ability to freely trade with the other nations of the world. The English again marched on American soil and burned Washington.

The Mexican-American War? A dispute over the independant nation of Texas, in which Mexican troops in a border dispute attacked US troops.

The US Civil War? Which nations haven't fought amongst themselves?

The Spanish-American War? Brought on by the destruction of a American War vessel, Maine, which blew up in Havana Harbor.

World War I? Certainly not started by US. All of the European powers had been fighting amongst themselves, to greater or lesser degrees, for 15 years prior to the first declaration of war.

World War II? Certainly not started by US. Germany anyone?

The Korean War? Not started by US, and actually a UN effort.

The Vietnam War? Started in 1946 by French troops trying to reclaim lands taken by the Japanese in French Indochina during World War II. I don't support the US role in Vietnam, but I must say, at the time, the entire world was afraid of the spread of Soviet/Chinese communism.

Grenada? Not a war by any stretch of the word. After an assasination US students, civilians and assets were thought to be at risk, the US responded.

The Gulf War? Um....I believe Saddam Hussein started that one by invading Kuwait and threatening Saudi Arabia. Not just a US war, but a international military effort authorized by the UN.

The War on Terrorism? September 11th anyone....

I would like to point out that World War I & II, neither started by US, caused more death than all the other wars I've listed (and any you might want to add) combined.

Actually, history has proven the US is not particulary interested in starting wars. We don't want to be involved unless it directly affects US, so we tend to wait too long to enter conflicts. We have been pretty good at finishing them though.

China? They support our current efforts against terrorism because they have their own radical Muslim extremists in that area of the world. How are we promoting war in China? The "spy" plane over international waters....please.

You really shouldn't be "too sure" about the US government enjoying war. That's a vast over-simplification. One thing is sure though, we have never lacked the courage to protect ourselves.

I AM INCREDIBLY PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN

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I know that technically I'm not supposed to do this, but I have to.

Ronn...YOU ROCK!!! That was an AWESOME POST!!!

(Stealing your line)
I AM INCREDIBLY PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN

[lord_gabriel]

...so, back at the keyboard...

...first i'D agree to some of you, Hitler WAS a maniac. No doubt about that. It's a shame racistical tendencies are erupting again even, or especially in my country...

...second, i'm not proud of being german, because i actually think that being part of a certain nation is a matter of coincidence not of own accomplishment...

...Bman, you forgot to mention Panama. It's a thing i had in mind, i'll do some research for more...

...How do you define War ? I would count US American Action in Grenada War since the Government of both Countries got involved...

...the US isn't interested in helping anyone but themselves. They do only react on invasions or similar stuff if US interests are in danger. (e.g. Iraq, Albania...) ...

...I look in the mirror to see what the world is today, and i'd agree that the USA took a major role in what i see. More than 70% of all the world's inhabitants live in poverty. Altough we are not without guild either, there is some evidence that the US is not interested in making things better. That would be OK, but they pretend to do (e.g. IWF, WTO). The US i a major producer of pollution and we all know how Bush reacted...

...Bman, your statements prove, that the winners do write history...

...isn't it somehow interesting that the Taliban was initially trained and armed by the USA..?

...did you know that still US-supported Paramilitaric Units are fighting in South America..?

...isn't it funny that Anthrax was developed by the NATO first..?

...do you remember that the USA nearly blew up the whole planet during Cuba crisis, because they thought USSR would install Nukes on Cuba. True, maybe. But noone cared for the american nukes in Turkey. So are the USSR really to blame when they want to install an equal threat to the US...

...i personally dislike the US-self righteousness (tricky word, i hope the spelling is correct), why are they taking themselves the right to invade anytime anywhere, if there isn't a legal reason, they would make one up - who made them world police..?

...i'm still not sure if the invasion of afghanistan was legal or not. Noone has ever proven to me, that Bin Laden did order/support the attacks of 11th September. But i am really sure the US Government would make up some proves if they need...

...after the bombing started (pretty cowardly, uh ? :-p ), Taliban leaders announced they would hand Bin Laden over, if the US would show them evidence for his guild - this has not happened, why ?

...besides, maybe be you should consider that all the information you get from media is controlled by someone. You can, should, never trust the information you get immidiately. Try to see other opinions. Don't think they are all liars, because you would prefer believing your own opinion. If you try to see US actions from the opposite view you might become REALLY angry. Why should it always be the other side, which is to blame ?!

...umm, and think of one thing : Terrorism is not the problem. It's a mean (undoubtly a terrible and completely unacceptable mean. and I would never try to find ANY excuses for terrorists. the attack on the 11th of sep was absolutely horrible) - one should think of the reasons...