HOW YA LIKE US NOW ?!?!?!?!?

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Nachtrafe: And if I dont believe in Jesus? To get rid of vermin sometimes you have to think, and even act like them. That's a moral decision that every person has to make for themselves. Imposing your morality on them is exactly what Bin Laden and Al Queda have done to the world. It is sick and wrong. (And please, please note that I'm not calling you a terrorist Fljotsdale. I have infinitely more respect for you than that. I just disagree with your view and I get just as up in arms when people start throwing around statements like "Can you imagine Jesus doing that?" as you do about jingoism.)

Point taken, Nachtrafe.
However, if we stick with animals for a moment - no rat would act like Larry did, lol! They are just predators/scavengers doing what predators/scavengers do. They carry disease - thus becoming 'pests' - from the filth WE leave around for them. No blame to them. They actually help clear up our food refuse, if you think about it.
Going back to bin Laden and his cronies - I have no problem with killing them if it is proved they are guilty, as we have been told they are. What I take issue with is the WAY it is being done. Ok, it may have EVENTUALLY come to this - but it may not, too. The Taliban may have given them up to justice. WE did not give them the evidence they asked for - then WE go in and bomb them. We have probably killed innocents in the process. We probably would even if the action had to be taken later... but we went in too fast and without due process of law. The terrorists that were behind the hijacking is Scotland some years ago were brought to JUSTICE - we didn't go in and bomb their country of origin.

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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Memnoch: Calm down, mate, don't put words in someone's mouth, eh? Epona has a right to talk about dead children, upsetting as that may be to you, just as you have the right to talk about Nintendo games advocating bin Laden's death (upsetting as that may be to her). Respect the right of others to their opinion as long as they are not disrespecting anyone in the process! Don't forget that.

Erm.. Memsy? Nachtrafe apologized, Epona accepted and they both waved nitey nite an hour or more ago!

Cloudy, off to bed

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Liliara: Well, if you were a woman in Afghanistan who was beaten because you showed a miniscule portion of skin, who used to have a dignified job as a teacher or a doctor, but because of the Taliban could no longer feed your family because you weren't allowed to work, or a man taken out and shot because you didn't want to join the Taliban army, I would think you may look forward to a change of government. This is not the government these people started out with! It would be apparent that there is a conflict between what is heard on the radio from the Taliban(television is not permitted) and the food and medicinal relief clearly shown on the packages to be American. At some point you would begin to doubt the oppresive forces. As an Afghan citizen I might wonder why a nation that allegedly was waging war against Islam would bother to feed it's enemy. Beneith it all, I think I would be hoping that a familiar world would once again be opened to me once it was over!

Now, THAT I DO agree with, Liliara! Well said!

Y'know, Liliara, although we don't agree about some things I have to tell you that I very much admire your openness and the honesty with which you express yourself. I like that in a person.
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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.



[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Epona: So.. lacking in essential fibre am I? (whatever that means). Perhaps I don't see more dead children as a solution. Do you know what's happening in Pakistan right now? This military action has destabilised the entire region. It seems to me that some people want revenge and that bloodlust has taken over from sanity. This 'war on terrorism' will only create more terrorists, and increase the influence of the Taliban in the region. That is not a solution, it is a bloodbath.

I'm with ya, Epona. If we are not VERY careful this whole thing will just escalate eventually, into WW3. And in the meantime - keep out of city centres and public buildings if you can.

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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[AzureWolf]

I am only going to say this as I am tired of arguing with people about it.
War in any form in a horrible thing.
It ruins the lives of everyone in the community as well as taking the lives of innocents who do not wish to be involved but their rights have been discounted and they have no choice in the matter.

War begets war.

This is a war of attrition that the US cannot hope to win. Each time the "Free World" wins a military victory they may have won a battle but they have just gone one step closer in losing the war. It is pure arrogance to think you can wipe out something like terroism. It is not an object you can destroy!

It is an Idea!

An any who think in any way from my statements that i support Terroism are wrong. I am simply trying to open some eyes to the bigger picture around you. Ideas are carried on even after the creators are dead. Do you think that if you destroy Osama Bin Laden and his terroists that it is going to be a blow to terroism? Others will take up the mantle and use this war as an example of Western corruption.

And secondly the idea that this war is to stop terroists from attacking us again? That IMO is utter bullshit and a cowardly coverup to explain why the US should take revenge with military might. Again it will not stop terroists but incite them as has already been proved by Osama declaring Jihad on the US.
And for those of you who have ranted about how the Taliban regieme(sp?) has spread propaganda against the US, that is true. Do not the Taliban try and made fanatics out of Afgahni's by telling them about the Wests corruption?

Now Stop

And think. Is this not what just what America is doing? Are not President Bush's "emotional" speeches just like the Talibans? They are both trying to use patriotism to their advantage to get more power. Ask yourself, if the people of the US were not so patriotic about their country could this military strike have happened so suddenly and ruthlessly?
(This is NOT Yank Bashing im just trying to give a new perspective)

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"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

Overlord of all that I behold and anything that i happen to not notice either.

Founding Hamlet of the HADB.

[This message has been edited by AzureWolf (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by AzureWolf: I am only going to say this as I am tired of arguing with people about it. War in any form in a horrible thing. It ruins the lives of everyone in the community as well as taking the lives of innocents who do not wish to be involved but their rights have been discounted and they have no choice in the matter. War begets war. This is a war of attrition that the US cannot hope to win. Each time the "Free World" wins a military victory they may have won a battle but they have just gone one step closer in losing the war. It is pure arrogance to think you can wipe out something like terroism. It is not an object you can destroy! It is an Idea! An any who think in any way from my statements that i support Terroism are wrong. I am simply trying to open some eyes to the bigger picture around you. Ideas are carried on even after the creators are dead. Do you think that if you destroy Osama Bin Laden and his terroists that it is going to be a blow to terroism? Others will take up the mantle and use this war as an example of Western corruption. And secondly the idea that this war is to stop terroists from attacking us again? That IMO is utter bullshit and a cowardly coverup to explain why the US should take revenge with military might. Again it will not stop terroists but incite them as has already been proved by Osama declaring Jihad on the US. And for those of you who have ranted about how the Taliban regieme(sp?) has spread propaganda against the US, that is true. Do not the Taliban try and made fanatics out of Afgahni's by telling them about the Wests corruption? Now Stop And think. Is this not what just what America is doing? Are not President Bush's "emotional" speeches just like the Talibans? They are both trying to use patriotism to their advantage to get more power. Ask yourself, if the people of the US were not so patriotic about their country could this military strike have happened so suddenly and ruthlessly? (This is NOT Yank Bashing im just trying to give a new perspective)

Great post Azurewolf. Very well said indeed. And, no, it isn't Yank Bashing, imo, just common sense.

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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Epona]

Originally posted by AzureWolf: I am only going to say this as I am tired of arguing with people about it. War in any form in a horrible thing. It ruins the lives of everyone in the community as well as taking the lives of innocents who do not wish to be involved but their rights have been discounted and they have no choice in the matter. War begets war. This is a war of attrition that the US cannot hope to win. Each time the "Free World" wins a military victory they may have won a battle but they have just gone one step closer in losing the war. It is pure arrogance to think you can wipe out something like terroism. It is not an object you can destroy! It is an Idea! An any who think in any way from my statements that i support Terroism are wrong. I am simply trying to open some eyes to the bigger picture around you. Ideas are carried on even after the creators are dead. Do you think that if you destroy Osama Bin Laden and his terroists that it is going to be a blow to terroism? Others will take up the mantle and use this war as an example of Western corruption. And secondly the idea that this war is to stop terroists from attacking us again? That IMO is utter bullshit and a cowardly coverup to explain why the US should take revenge with military might. Again it will not stop terroists but incite them as has already been proved by Osama declaring Jihad on the US. And for those of you who have ranted about how the Taliban regieme(sp?) has spread propaganda against the US, that is true. Do not the Taliban try and made fanatics out of Afgahni's by telling them about the Wests corruption? Now Stop And think. Is this not what just what America is doing? Are not President Bush's "emotional" speeches just like the Talibans? They are both trying to use patriotism to their advantage to get more power. Ask yourself, if the people of the US were not so patriotic about their country could this military strike have happened so suddenly and ruthlessly? (This is NOT Yank Bashing im just trying to give a new perspective)

Thank you Azzie!! This is the post I would like to make - if only I were eloquent enough... *sigh*

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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Erm.. Memsy? Nachtrafe apologized, Epona accepted and they both waved nitey nite an hour or more ago! Cloudy, off to bed

That's ok, I thought what I had to say was important and just a reminder.

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[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Memnoch: That's ok, I thought what I had to say was important and just a reminder.

Chewed me out as well, dincha, Memnoch? I think I DO come over as a self-opinionated bossy-boots (guess I am, sigh ) but I DO try not to!



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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Liliara, I probably know as much as any christian about Jesus, and maybe more than most who claim to be christian but have never even read the gospels, let alone the entire bible.

Fljlotsdale, if I read a biography of you, am I going to know you as well as those that have an ongoing relationship with you? As well as your daughter?
The point which you have readily missed is that Jesus is not just a bunch of words on a page. Others here go on about how they follow Jesus teachings but aren't Christian. Why?

Knowing Jesus is a relationship. It is not about what he taught, but what he did. What he does. Sometimes you can learn more about Jesus grace and love from lifes journey, than you can from the written word. Lessons about trusting him, simple trust, are ones that I could not have found in the bible. I had to walk through life with him in me, and me in him.

I am afraid that from my point of view, as you deny even his oneness with the creator, you know very little about the Jesus I know. I know a God who loved the world enough to become man, die, rise and enter heaven, and then send his spirit to reside in me, changing me, impacting my life every day with aspects of his love, peace, grace and joy.

The Jesus you know seems worlds away from mine.


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!