![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 | ||
Quintesson
![]() Join Date: September 12, 2001
Location: Ewing, NJ
Age: 43
Posts: 1,079
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 |
User suspended until [Feb13]
Join Date: December 6, 2001
Location: the south side of ol virginny
Age: 63
Posts: 1,172
|
Back to the original post. Neither party can afford to write off the South because the southern states posess the largest population of the country (as opposed to the north-east, mid-west, etc.).
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |
Ninja Storm Shadow
![]() Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 3,577
|
Quote:
![]() Slavery was the excuse, not the reason, there is a differance between a reason and an excuse. One is why you do something, the other is what you use to justify why you did it.
__________________
Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 | |
Very Mad Bird
![]() Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 53
Posts: 9,246
|
Quote:
![]() Slavery was the excuse, not the reason, there is a differance between a reason and an excuse. One is why you do something, the other is what you use to justify why you did it. [/QUOTE]Great post John. Thanks. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 | |
Zhentarim Guard
![]() Join Date: December 31, 2003
Location: SE Tornado Belt
Age: 64
Posts: 341
|
Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
![]() Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: North Carolina
Age: 62
Posts: 3,257
|
I've been researching the comments I made about the Southern States having a Constitutional Right to secede from the Union. This was a comment a history teacher had made in class and I simply couldn't remember what logic or what part of the Constitution he used to back up his claim.
I also asked my college buddies for help and here is the answer I got from one of them. It sounds a lot like what my teacher said, so I'm assuming it's pretty close to the theory he used also. The basic reasoning behind sucession rested on this: the States had, in effect, "hired" as an "agent" the entity known as the Federal Government. The Founding Fathers were most determined that the Federal Government should always be secondary to the individual State Governments. (See many of the comments on this subject in the Federalist Papers). As agent of the States, the Federal Governemnt was given specific, enumerated rights and responsibilities. As Bob noted, the 10th Amendment CLEARLY notes that " The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." The purpose of having a Federal Government was to have an entity that could function in matters (usually international in nature) that required a singular voice (such as the signing of treaties with other nations, instead of having each individual State consider and sign each individual treaty). Also, the Federal Governemnt was needed to standardize certain things within the States (such as weights, measures, currency), and ease the functioning of trade and commerce between the States. The basic idea was that the Union would be, to those outside the Union, a single entity, but to those within it, the States would be completely seperate entities. As seperate entities, States were completely within thier rights to, in effect, "fire" thier agent if and when said agent's services were no longer needed or desired (just as your boss can fire you when your services are no longer needed or desired). It was the greed of the Union for Federal duties and taxes on exports and imports from and to the Southern States that led the great war criminal Lincoln to invade the territories of Soverign southern Sta tes, and wage war on the civilian populace therein. One side note on Lincoln: during his Presidential campaign, even he affirmed the right of a state to secede!
__________________
[img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 |
40th Level Warrior
![]() Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
|
In effect, the Constitution is a treaty, just like the EU treaty. States are still recognized sovereigns, though participation in the union under the Constitution does relegate certain duties (e.g. treaties, as in Mass. cannot enter a treaty with a country).
However, most treaties supply their own "seccession" (often called "withdrawal")rules. As the Constitution does not have such a rule, we are relegated to the general premises of international law, which I think probably do support the right to negate a previously-signed treaty. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 |
Very Mad Bird
![]() Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 53
Posts: 9,246
|
So who created Montana or Nevada, and why are they deemed "States"? Why were the Carolinas and Dakotas made seperate states?
In short, what body, what entity created these states? Did they originate organically, with self determination, like say France or Holland or other such states of the "United States of Europe" (as some want it named) or were they infact created by the federal government. If when the British government was removed, was there in fact a central leadership you would call a federal government of any sort? If so, did this create the states, and if so wouldn't the states owe their existence to the collective and greater body? Additionally by what right were these states created if they were replacing Amerindian nations? Did Amerindians have a voice in their creation, and can they secede from anything? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 |
Zhentarim Guard
![]() Join Date: December 31, 2003
Location: SE Tornado Belt
Age: 64
Posts: 341
|
manifest destiny
n. A policy of imperialistic expansion defended as necessary or benevolent. often Manifest Destiny The 19th-century doctrine that the United States had the right and duty to expand throughout the North American continent. ~~~~ If I didn't have to get ready for work in few, I could rant about this for a long time. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 | ||||
Lord Ao
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Join Date: June 24, 2002
Location: Nevernever Land
Age: 51
Posts: 2,002
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
[url]\"http://www.duryea.org/pinky/gurkin.wav\" target=\"_blank\">AYPWIP?</a> .... <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[1ponder]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/1ponder.gif\" /> <br />\"I think so Brain, but isn\'t a cucumber that small called a gherkin?\"<br /> ![]() |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Bad Writing | Arvon | General Discussion | 10 | 08-25-2005 11:37 AM |
Some writing | Link | Entertainment (Movies, TV Shows and Books/Comics) | 2 | 01-30-2005 03:28 AM |
creative writing | RevRuby | General Discussion | 9 | 10-23-2002 09:35 PM |
Writing | Nanobyte | Miscellaneous Games (RPG or not) | 2 | 06-12-2002 03:15 AM |
script writing | slackerboy | Baldurs Gate II Archives | 8 | 03-11-2001 10:52 AM |