Assad given weapons ultimatum

[Alson]

Heh--no need to thank me, Memnoch & Timber--the fact that I happen to live in the area in question does not give my opinion any special 'validity' or 'power' over your own. If anything, my perspective should be inspected more carefully, as it is surely more clouded (by the surroundings)--but I do my best to overcome that by trying to look at things from an objective point of view, and making decisions based on facts and not impulsive feelings.

Timber, you mentioned getting all Palestinians out of Israel. Even if we put the cheaper imported labor issue aside (which can be easily dealt with--actually, I'm sure that'll provide the needed boost to the Israeli economy, which has been severely hurt since the the year 2000, resulting in almost 10.5% unemployment rate), I have strong doubts that we'll ever see this here, for two reasons, the one is trivial and the other a little more obscure. First, almost 15%, IIRC, of Israel's population consist of Palestinians who stayed here after the war in 1948. These Palestinians are Israeli citizens, and as such, Israel is committed to them (at least if it strives to be a law-abiding country) and to their safety, and it cannot guarantee that they'll get their full rights in the new Palestinian country. However, I doubt anyone will stop them from leaving if the wish to. The second reason has historical roots. Back in the Holocaust, the Nazis transferred Jews from all over Europe to the concentration camps against their will. The word "transfer" has burnt itself in the Jewish consciousness forever, and is always used with a grain of fear. Getting all Palestinians out of Israel will involve the use of force one way or another, and this has "transfer" written all over it in bold letters. The idea was suggested, and still is every now and then, but due to these two reasons above, it tends to be ignored.

As for Israelis not seeing the occupation as their "manifest destiny"... well, some do, unfortunately, but these are also the ones that will never use the word "occupation"--as they believe it is rightfully ours. As far as I can tell, though, the idea that the conflict is soluble is slowly getting to people, so the people I just mentioned are slowly pushed to the sideways of our society. They're still dangerous from there (if not even more so).

I also must compliment Skippy1 for this one:

I'm 41 in February. All my life there has been conflict in this part of the world. How tired must a 40 year old Israeli or Palestinian feel?

... as I couldn't agree more. And I'm 16.

Hey Alson, I wanted to send you a [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] for having such a positive attitude. I have been hearing some good things about some compromises being workedout recently. I hope that some day things can really be peaceful in your neighborhood. If the kids can grow up and overcome their parents weakneses and prejudices things will get better.

[ 01-12-2004, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Gab]

I personally feel very sorry for Israel. Just look at how many enimies they have. I know It's is'nt fair that they occupy Arab's land but it sure doesn't give Arabs the right to do suicide bombings. I'm not against the muslims. I just really hate terrorist groupes like the Hamas.

[Skippy1]

Originally posted by Alson: Heh--no need to thank me, Memnoch & Timber--the fact that I happen to live in the area in question does not give my opinion any special 'validity' or 'power' over your own. If anything, my perspective should be inspected more carefully, as it is surely more clouded (by the surroundings)--but I do my best to overcome that by trying to look at things from an objective point of view, and making decisions based on facts and not impulsive feelings. Timber, you mentioned getting all Palestinians out of Israel. Even if we put the cheaper imported labor issue aside (which can be easily dealt with--actually, I'm sure that'll provide the needed boost to the Israeli economy, which has been severely hurt since the the year 2000, resulting in almost 10.5% unemployment rate), I have strong doubts that we'll ever see this here, for two reasons, the one is trivial and the other a little more obscure. First, almost 15%, IIRC, of Israel's population consist of Palestinians who stayed here after the war in 1948. These Palestinians are Israeli citizens, and as such, Israel is committed to them (at least if it strives to be a law-abiding country) and to their safety, and it cannot guarantee that they'll get their full rights in the new Palestinian country. However, I doubt anyone will stop them from leaving if the wish to. The second reason has historical roots. Back in the Holocaust, the Nazis transferred Jews from all over Europe to the concentration camps against their will. The word "transfer" has burnt itself in the Jewish consciousness forever, and is always used with a grain of fear. Getting all Palestinians out of Israel will involve the use of force one way or another, and this has "transfer" written all over it in bold letters. The idea was suggested, and still is every now and then, but due to these two reasons above, it tends to be ignored. As for Israelis not seeing the occupation as their "manifest destiny"... well, some do, unfortunately, but these are also the ones that will never use the word "occupation"--as they believe it is rightfully ours. As far as I can tell, though, the idea that the conflict is soluble is slowly getting to people, so the people I just mentioned are slowly pushed to the sideways of our society. They're still dangerous from there (if not even more so). I also must compliment Skippy1 for this one: quote: I'm 41 in February. All my life there has been conflict in this part of the world. How tired must a 40 year old Israeli or Palestinian feel?

... as I couldn't agree more. And I'm 16. [/QUOTE]Apologies for not replying earlier than this, been a bit snowed-under with work the last few days. Still am to tell the truth.

I appreciate the compliment Alson, even though I feel it's not really warranted. To be honest, I feel slightly guilty that I live a reasonably comfortable life when there are places in the world that merely to survive is a daily struggle. Perhaps it is a bit of a fantasy, but I believe that at this stage in the history of the world, this should not be the case. When we have some governments in the world spending more on weapons than the gross national product of some other nations, there is something seriously wrong.

From reading your words, it would seem that there is some form of normalcy in Israel at least. You seem to be able to step back and look at the problems rationally, which would indicate a willingness to understand the essence of the problem. I find this heartening. Do your friends and peers have a similar attitude as you? If so there is some real hope that a solution can be found, eventually.

[Black Baron]

I am back with replies. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

since that i am stuck for 5/7 of the week without acsess to my pc, i post only now.
Hope that it is not considered thread necromancy. [img]smile.gif[/img]

The general problem wuth this region is that all the leaders hate each other. Sharon loath arafat and arafat is loathed by assad, and vice versa.
The majority of the people in this region are uneducated and governed by a few religeous fanatics, that see in their dreams the death of every jew.
The same (on lesser scale but nonethless), is happening on our side.

the territories issue is stuck in the throat of everyone that lives here, and the majority (and yes, skunk, me too, [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) came to understand that we must withdraw.
But we have a problem-economy. We cannot evacuate so many people-over 250000. We can evacuate most of them, but the areas like "gush ezion", are likely to remain there forever.
The solution that came to mind to some people is the exchange of territories, so no one will loose land.
hope that works out.