China Begins Killing Civet Cats

yes, they look kinda like a mix of Racoon, leopard and fox.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by MagiK: yes, they look kinda like a mix of Racoon, leopard and fox.

Yea, but they don't taste as good as spotted owl

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: I did see that you said China was responsible for the animals they "culled". I even included that part in the quote of your text when I responded to it.

that was not the part you highlighted, nor was it used in your response - only the highlighted part was.

perhaps you can see the source of my misunderstanding.

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: However, I disagree with your other point - that "the west" is indirectly responsible for this decision of the Chinese government. This was your opening statement and that point was reinforced in the statement you claimed I missed.

that was never my point nor was it the opening statement. i requested reflection, not placed blame, direct or indirect. if you re-read the highlighted passage you will see this.

i merely illustrated that we're all connected. everything we do or say (and perhaps even think) affects everyone we touch every day. this is as true for our social organisations (eg governments) as it is for us as individuals.

if you believe this effect carries responsibility, then that is a leap your conscience is making, not a burden i am placing on you.

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Because, even as you correctly placed the blame on China, you still implied "the west" was partially responsible by claiming "two wrongs don't make a right".

in that sentence, i was trying to clarify that even if one believed the west was partly responsible, as you seem to think, that doesnt relieve china of responsibility for their actions.

i can see how this could be misread, though, and apologise for the confusion. in the future, i will try to shelve brevity in favour of clarity.

Originally posted by MagiK: Considering I never said I advocated that exactly

we agree about judgement of cultures.

my response put your opinion together with other opinions you expressed to make a humourous observation. i apologise that i didnt make it more clear.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: yes, they look kinda like a mix of Racoon, leopard and fox.

Yea, but they don't taste as good as spotted owl [/QUOTE]That's it. I'm gettin' my gun. I hear Alabama coots cook up real nice.

[ 01-08-2004, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by sultan: quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: I did see that you said China was responsible for the animals they "culled". I even included that part in the quote of your text when I responded to it.

that was not the part you highlighted, nor was it used in your response - only the highlighted part was.

perhaps you can see the source of my misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]Fair enough. Although I was focusing more on your assertion about the demands placed on China by the west, I should have also acknowledged that you were placing the blame for the actual "culling" on China. My apologies for that oversight.

Originally posted by sultan: quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: However, I disagree with your other point - that "the west" is indirectly responsible for this decision of the Chinese government. This was your opening statement and that point was reinforced in the statement you claimed I missed.

that was never my point nor was it the opening statement. i requested reflection, not placed blame, direct or indirect. if you re-read the highlighted passage you will see this.

i merely illustrated that we're all connected. everything we do or say (and perhaps even think) affects everyone we touch every day. this is as true for our social organisations (eg governments) as it is for us as individuals.

if you believe this effect carries responsibility, then that is a leap your conscience is making, not a burden i am placing on you.[/QUOTE]Wow...I can't believe the feeling of deja vu' you just gave me, sultan. First, you make this statement - "i dont know the specifics of the situation, but before we go accusing china of over-reaction, let's consider the west's demanding china "do something". The last part carries an implication that "the west" shares some of the responsibility for China's decision to cull the civat cats. You even provided an analogy of someone complaining about their neighbors dog and the unexpected results to illustrate your point that "demands" made by the west were indirectly responsible for China's decision.

Yet, when I challenge those assumptions AND question exactly what demands were placed on China by the west, your respond by saying that was never what you meant and if that's how I interpreted it, then it MUST be due to a guilty conscious on my part. LOLOLOL That is a classic ruse, where a poster will use a somewhat baited comment to imply something, but when another poster "challenges" that implication, the first posters proclaims absolute innocence and says that such a response is obviously the result of hidden guilt by the second party. I say that it give me a sense of deja vu' because this reminds me a lot of a Moaning Princess that used to frequent these boards. She used this technique in many many posts. Of course, everyone else saw through the ruse - just as they will this one - but it is still humorous to see it used.

As for your assertion that this was not your "opening statement", I respectfully disagree. It was the first two lines of your first post in this thread. I believe that does qualify it as an "opening statement".

Just for the sake of clarification, I really don't care that China is killing off thousands of animals by very barbaric methods. Certainly, I wish they hadn't chosen that course of action, but there is absolutely NOTHING I can do about thier decision to take that action, so I don't concern myself with it. However, I do NOT accept any responsibility (whether implied or directly stated) for their decision to take that course of action. I asked you in MY opening post to provide more details on these supposed "demands" that were placed on China by the west. So far, I haven't seen any clarification on that point. But as I stated before, even if "the west" did make "demands" on China to do something about the SARS epidemic, they had a legitimate concern and reason for doing so.

I do understand your point about all of us being "interconnected" and the actions taken by one country having an effect (whether directly or indirectly) on other countries. But I do not feel that the west (or any other country or geographical region) bears any responsibility for China taking such a radical action in an attempt to eradicate a possible source of SARS. The decision and responsibility for that action lie solely with China.

[ 01-09-2004, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]

[Skippy1]

[img]graemlins/rambo.gif[/img] Kill the Cats!!

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Link: Chinese people eat the strangest creatures.. they even eat dogs! Grrr! And now this? Just disgusting if you'd ask me [img]graemlins/1disgust.gif[/img]

And we eat cows, much to the disgust of hindus. Different cultures can be like that sometimes...

I can sympathise also with people who find the culling methods to be inhumane. But China is poor and simply can't afford expensive bolt-guns a la UK BSE crisis method and it has to act NOW or watch another a possible epidemic rise up in the human populace (and it does NOT have the resources to deal with such an outbreak).

In fact, if you look at the measures that China undertook during the last outbreak, they were practically medieveal - villages where an outbreak took place were simply cut off. Little or no medical care provided, with no-one allowed in or out and food delivered to a safe-zone where the villagers would then come to pick it up. If you survived, you survived and if you didn't - well, tough.

Dying of SARS with little or no treatment is not a particularly 'humane' way to die - and probably more painful and horrible than death by drowning/electocution etc. etc. (especially without adequate supplies of painkillers and sedatives).

In terms of the numbers of cats being killed, it isn't out of proportion either. During the BSE crisis in Britain, only one animal in a herd had to be diagnosed with BSE for the entire herd to come under a destruction order.

In any event, I'm sure that the Chinese would do things differently if they had the kind of resources available in the US or EU...

[ 01-09-2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I agree 100% with Skunk (wow - who would have thunk it possible? [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] ).

While I may not agree with China's solution or their method of carrying it out, I realize they are doing what they can with the resources they have. And - after all is said and done - they have a right to handle the problem however they see fit to do so.

I also remember the BSE outbreak in England and the fact that it only took ONE cow to have an entire herd eradicated.