Moore removed...

[Sir Taliesin]

The really truely STOOPID thing about all this, is that Ex-Judge Moore can run for election again and be elect back into the Court System, even as Chief Justice in the State of Alabama! He is not barred forever more from being a judge again.

My personal thoughts as a Christian is as an historical document (along with the Magna Carta, and the Tenets of Mohommand etc, etc...) it might be legitimate to be there, but if it's there for religious reason, then it has no place.

[Azred]

Since the Ten Commandments appear in Exodus, which is clearly in the Old Testament, and Christianity deals only with the New Testament (since Christ's death and subsequent role as intercessory replaces the need for a Temple), then the Ten Commandments themselves have nothing to do with Christianity. At least, not directly.

This is why there should be strict separation of religion and political power. Religion is a matter of faith--usually the kind of faith a child places in its parents; you wouldn't place political power in the hands of a child, would you? Besides, religion is also a matter of emotion, and mixing emotion with politics is dangerous.

[HolyWarrior]

Cerek, when the law is wrong, it is our duty to oppose such laws. Were those on the Underground Railroad wrong in violating the Fugitive Slave Law? Clearly not.
The judges set themselves above the law by violating the First Amendment, trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion.

[Timber Loftis]

The free exercise of religion in your home/church is quite distinct from carrying such exercise into your government job, and enforcing it, or purporting to enforce it, as a rule of law, whereby it becomes the State establishing religion.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior: Cerek, when the law is wrong, it is our duty to oppose such laws. Were those on the Underground Railroad wrong in violating the Fugitive Slave Law? Clearly not. The judges set themselves above the law by violating the First Amendment, trying to prohibit the free exercise of religion.

Well, I have to disagree in this specific instance HolyWarrior. It's a standard rule of thumb that free exercise of religion doesn't extend into the workplace - especially depending on the type of business you work at. Judge Moore specifically works for the State of Alabama. The Constitution allows the free exercise of religion but also says that there shall be separation of church and state, so that the government is not seen as trying to either enforce or endorse one religion over another.

This is even more critical in the case of a State Judge. His "job" is to make decisions that literally affect other peoples lives on a daily basis. Judges especially are supposed to interpret and enforce the law WITHOUT allowing any personal bias or prejudice affect their decisions. I'm sure there are many laws on the books that judges disagree with on a personal level, however, it is still thier job to interpret and enforce these laws as they are written - whether they agree with them or not.

One of the biggest criticisms of Judge Moore was the speculation that he would deliver harsher sentences to athiests or pagans, since they openly disagreed with his religion. While I would certainly hope that wasn't the case - and that Judge Moore would issue sentences based solely on the circumstances of the case and what the law would allow - I can certainly understand why a professed atheist would feel "uncomfortable" knowing that the judge in his case had spent $5,000 out of his own pocket to have a monument to Christianity built and installed in the State Courthouse.

To turn the situation around, if I ever found myself accused of a crime, I would certainly be nervous if I found out the judge in MY case was an atheist that considered Christians nothing more than a bunch of ignorant zealots.

I agree Judge Moore had a right to challenge a law he felt was wrong. But as an elected representative of that same law system, he has a professional obligation to abide by that law until he can get it changed.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: The really truely STOOPID thing about all this, is that Ex-Judge Moore can run for election again and be elect back into the Court System, even as Chief Justice in the State of Alabama! He is not barred forever more from being a judge again. My personal thoughts as a Christian is as an historical document (along with the Magna Carta, and the Tenets of Mohommand etc, etc...) it might be legitimate to be there, but if it's there for religious reason, then it has no place.

The report on the national news last night said that removing Judge Moore was just the first goal of the lawyers that brought the case against him. Now that they have achieved that, their next goal is to try to have him disbarred! I disagree with that and don't really think it will succeed, because the fact is that Moore has gained a LOT of popularity in Alabama due to this case.

Of course, that led to even more speculation regarding his future job options. There is always the possibility that he could use the publicity and popularity generated by this case to run for governor of Alabama. Now wouldn't THAT be an ironic twist of fate.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: The report on the national news last night said that removing Judge Moore was just the first goal of the lawyers that brought the case against him. Now that they have achieved that, their next goal is to try to have him disbarred! I disagree with that and don't really think it will succeed, because the fact is that Moore has gained a LOT of popularity in Alabama due to this case.

I think that we can consider Mr Moore (not 'Judge' anymore!) suitably chastised by virture of his removal from office. I don't think any further action should be taken against him at this stage beyond forcing him to pay for the removal costs of the monument and any associated repairs to state property.

However, should Mr Moore display yet more open contempt of the Courts, then disbarment may be the only way to go. At this point, he should consider himself to be on probation and conduct himself accordingly.

[Timber Loftis]

I, too, do think he will get disbarred. Censured most likely, with an admonishment appearing in the various lawyer's newsletters. However, there are factors that can change this: (1) politics, politics, politics -- from either side, demanding this or that from the ethics board (2) the ethics board will also look for him to admit wrongdoing and show remorse -- and he may just shoot himself in the foot again -- and it may be a dispositive thing, but maybe not.

I'll step up to the plate and do what no one else would dare -- and say the underground railroads were WRONG. We're talking law here. While morally they may have been the right thing to do, legally they were aiding and abetting and conspiring in the theft of property, and smuggling. Let me use a modern example. I may hate SUVs, and, in the future (after we've scorched the sky) it may be a no-brainer that I am morally absolutely right to want to ban such overt abuses of fossil fuels. However, that does not make it legally right for me to vandalize, steal, or destroy SUVs now at this point in history. Another example, in the future it may be a no-brainer that you can't *own* the land, as it's a rather silly concept at base. Until society realizes that, however, it's wrong for me to try to interfere with someone's ownership of their little patch of land.

Such are the problems with being Lawful Neutral, you see. And it is a court's job, and a judge's job (while on the job), to be just that.

[ 11-14-2003, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Maelakin]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Such are the problems with being Lawful Neutral, you see. And it is a court's job, and a judge's job (while on the job), to be just that.

Come on, we all know that lawyers and judges are Lawful Evil!!! Only worried about lining their own pockets! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[khazadman]

Then you should become Lawful Good TL. I do think that Moore stepped over the line. You can't pick snd choose which laws you will obey. That will lead to anarchy. And I'm a big supporter of laws. I just don't like the weak ass and unimaginative punishments the courts hand down.