We are all as mad as each other...

[Avatar]

It seems to me that it's a good idea to take a few steps back from the chaos and the heat of blame and speculation after relentless terrorists attacks and retaliations. And look at all this from both an historic point of view and from a humanitarian point of view.

When have we, humans, ever been peaceful or respected another religion so different to our own?

When the Greeks campaigned from Europe to India, calling all others savages and brought what they called civilization to everywhere they walked. And in the end, they dressed like Persians forgetting their gods and temples alike. How many fell under the pikes of Hoplites because they didn't gain favor from the Greek gods?

And what of the Romans? Did they not steal Greek culture for their own, renouncing all others as barbarians, conquering their known world till the end of their days at Constantinople. How many fell under the swords of Roman legions, because they were not as advanced or didn't pray to the Roman gods?

What humanity did the French and Britons bring as the crusaders? Short of raping Cyprus after she has supplied the crusaders for a hundred years, and then sacking Constantinople of her 1000 year herritage, because they lost faith in the very god they both share. And what of the hundreds of thousands of Muslims women they massacred during war and traded with during peace?

Genghis Khan, thus hangs highest. He alone united nomads to trample down on all the known empires. From China and Korea to Persia, to Turkey, to the Saracens, and to almost all of Europe. None dared to oppose. At Baghdad, the Persians thought they could hold out, the Mongols massacred 200,000 unarmed civilians until you could swim in their blood on the sandy streets. And what of Damascus? The city that defied the Crusaders for 200 years fell in 14 days to the Mongols. Another massacre. Why? Why not? Mongols killed because of reasons i don't think modern education allows us to understand.

Richard the Lionheart: didn't stop him from murdering the families of 5000 leading Arabs right under the Muslim army's sight to provoke them into attack. But this was never recorded as significant because they were Muslims and we are Christians. Only Saladin never allowed such undertakings, and perhaps the softer heart made him loose the battles ahead.

Japan, a nation that can never ri of its shadow. the shadow of atrocities it won't admit to during the last world war. Atrocities that are at the heart of historic Japanese culture, yet too shameful to explain or admit to nations as close as China and Korea.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao-Tze Dong, tyrants of the modern nations. All un-educated at youth, yet leaders later on. Their death toll surpass those of the ancients put together. Their murder was in their own people, the very people that put them there. Why?

And now, terrorism. Suicide bombings. 9/11. Why? To attack "occupying" US troops in Iraq in understandable, but why attack schools and hospitals full of people you hardly know. These are not un-educated people. They are not Roman fanatics wanting to bring civilization to savages, nor Christians calling out heresy. Nor are they poor, desperate to seek new riches. They are not military leaders seeking glory.

Some are fathers, others are young women.

THEY do it because they have ALWAYS done it for the past 5000 years of our history. We never heard of them until the information capabilities until now.

When hasn't one nation argued land with another? When haven't religion clashed, or one advanced civilization clashed with a less advanced one?

And to dream of peace and to think of stillness in a sea of turmoil, is either to fool others or to not understand the human nature at all.

And i doubt it's the last one.

My 2 pennies.



[ 09-12-2003, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Avatar ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Avatar: And to dream of peace and to think of stillness in a sea of turmoil, is either to fool others or to not understand the human nature at all.

Perhaps dreaming of peace it is to understand the potential of human nature. Perhaps practicing peace individually is the first step in transforming the collective human mindset. Perhaps the real fools are the ones who beleive in violence, retribution, and/or intolerance....

One can look for and believe in the good of human nature even if it is not obvious and/or apparent. I dont find this foolish, nor lacking understanding.

I just bumped this post that clearly illustrates the potential inherent in humanity.

[john]

It's amazing that the human race has lasted as long as it has.We seem to be the only animal on the planet that kills for fun or sport.Look at the crap thats comming on tv night after night,ultimate fighting,the next thing will be gladiators again,and I guarantee you budweiser would be right there to sell beer and sponser the damn thing...

[The Hierophant]

What our species needs is the ability to genetically keep the memories of our ancestors ala Paul/Leto II Atreides

[Animal]

So you'd think that sooner or later we, as humans, would learn from our history. Just because it has happened in the past, doesn't make it right, or justify it.

[john]

We can only hope Animal!

[Xen]

I see no changes all I see is
racist faces misplaced hate makes disgrace to races.We under I wonder what
it takes to make this one better place, let's erase the wasted.Take the
evil out the people they'll be acting right'cause both black and white is
smokin' crack tonight and only time we chill is when we kill each other it
takes skill to be real, time to heal each other...

[ 09-13-2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Xen ]

[The Hierophant]

heh heh. Ok. Might be time to go twelve monkeys style on our own asses! 6 billion people means 6 billion differing views on how the world is, and how the world should be. There's just way too much room for violent conflict of opinion. Especially when organic resources are limited and survival starvation-reflexes kick in (ie: morality debates go out the window when you are unwillingly hungry). Poison the humans. Kill them in their billions with disease, famine and weapons of mass destruction. Let the tiny pockets of survivors pull together in solidarity just to stand a chance against the savagery of their natural universe. Do this, and you remove the two key prerequisites for war: something to gain through it, and spare people to fight it.

[Avatar]

Well I think education is the key here, and the right education. All it takes is 1 person out of more than 5,000,000,000 to be wrongly educated or not at all. That person will have no clue what history is or ever will be. How can we learn from history when 70% of us never went to school?

How can you make everyone "humane"? Those educated can practice a civilized culture for centuries, and yet it only take one to bow up a bomb.