US snookered by Hussein?

[Skunk]

Weak leaders in Muslim countries tend to get removed quicker than prom dresses. Saddam wasn't just balancing the fact western countries would go to war with him. He was also balancing his image and station in the Muslim world. He had multiple conflicting goals and requirements to fulfill.

There is a difference between looking weak and being weak. There is a difference between the information available to you and me - and to that which was available to the ordinary Iraqi in a country where all media was strictly controlled by the state.

Saddam stood up to big, bad Washington and London while they bombed his country for ten years - no fear of looking weak there. He then goes on to say that its all based on unfounded lies and that the real reason is to stop muslims from becoming strong and to seize their assets. This was the public front that Saddam used even before 1998. But for the, "look I'm a strong leader but I'm being victimised in an unfair fight" to work, it hinged on the fact that no WMD's could be found - it hinged on their destruction - hidden items always come to light. I strongly believe then, that every WMD that Saddam was aware of was already destroyed by 1998 - that fits very well with his propaganda campaign.

Finally (of course) the obvious - when everything is falling around you and you have nothing to lose but your life, you use whatever weapons you have at your disposal. But not a single chemical/biological/nuclear weapon was fired. Not a single illegal missile was fired. Not a single 'drone plane' was used to drop chemicals. Nothing but conventional weapons were used in a fight for survival....

[Timber Loftis]

But then aren't we back to it being Saddam's fault for: signing cease-fire accords with the UN saying he would get rid of X amount of weapons; being an uncooperative a**hole to UN inspectors; and never publicly destroying the WMD or making ANY record of the destruction? It's a grave he dug for himself. He either lied about having them, lied about destroying them, or lied about the negative of either of the following. Is he not a case-in-point for the tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive?

[Skunk]

But then aren't we back to it being Saddam's fault for: signing cease-fire accords with the UN saying he would get rid of X amount of weapons; being an uncooperative a**hole to UN inspectors; and never publicly destroying the WMD or making ANY record of the destruction? It's a grave he dug for himself. He either lied about having them, lied about destroying them, or lied about the negative of either of the following. Is he not a case-in-point for the tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive?

Exactly - I agree with you. In the end, I think that he *was* telling the truth that there were no longer any WMD's in the country - problem is that, after weaving a pack of lies, no one believed him anymore. And now Bush and B.liar have found themselves in the same boat that Saddam sunk in - which is an irony of the most 'sexed-up' kind...

[Timber Loftis]

That is quite ironic -- Bush and Blair laid low by Saddam's lies. I think it's the most plausible scenario out there.

[WillowIX]

I don't understand why the US/UK would want to spread this kind of information. I mean, sure they made a mistake but saying 'oh we were fooled into this' paints a worse picture IMO. They should have just taken the hits themselves...

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by WillowIX: I don't understand why the US/UK would want to spread this kind of information. I mean, sure they made a mistake but saying 'oh we were fooled into this' paints a worse picture IMO. They should have just taken the hits themselves...

Because Bush has an election to win next year and they need to get this behind them. Otherwise the hunt for missing WMD's becomes a club for the dems to beat him with. This way they can just scapegoat the intel crowd, saying they did not do there job properly. And since the American public has a very short memory it will now be a none issues in Novemeber of 2004.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by WillowIX: I don't understand why the US/UK would want to spread this kind of information. I mean, sure they made a mistake but saying 'oh we were fooled into this' paints a worse picture IMO. They should have just taken the hits themselves...

Because Bush has an election to win next year and they need to get this behind them. Otherwise the hunt for missing WMD's becomes a club for the dems to beat him with. This way they can just scapegoat the intel crowd, saying they did not do there job properly. And since the American public has a very short memory it will now be a none issues in Novemeber of 2004. [/QUOTE]I wonder ... to win an election, is it better to look like a liar or like an idiot ? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

EDIT : Really, isn't it somewhat at the core of being a leader that you are responsible for the results of the work of the people you lead, and the decisions you take ? So, doesn't the "we have been fooled" attitude amount to showing you are incompetent ?

EDIT AGAIN : No offense to anyone intended - we here have a President who is a proven liar and crook, and whom the Général de Gaulle called "le grand con" (the tall idiot) - seems he qualifies on both accounts, and we elected him anyway.

[ 09-02-2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Moiraine ]

[Felix The Assassin]

My 2 pennies worth.

1. One must remember that for 8 years of the last president in office, there were only harsh words and media assaults exchanged.

2. In about 6 months from now, the general populace will see the real objective!

Felix.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: 2. In about 6 months from now, the general populace will see the real objective! Felix.

*yawn* you Bush apologists have been saying this for over a year now.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: 2. In about 6 months from now, the general populace will see the real objective! Felix.

*yawn* you Bush apologists have been saying this for over a year now. [/QUOTE]I wish it was a yawning matter.