The trophies of war

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by antryg: The reality is that I'm saddened by so many posting in this forum who delight in believing the worst not only of the American government but its people as well. We are accused of not understanding other nations or cultures but the accusers seem to be no better informed and also seem to have gotten their understanding of American life and culture from movies and TV, which is no more real than a fairy tale.

[img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img]
I'll stand as one of those accusers who has never left the borders of America my whole 29 year 11 month old life. There is a long list of muslim cultural sensitivities we have just trampled on in our zest for regime change. This comes from someone who has lived in many U.S. states north south east and west and has asorbed plenty of American culture from way more than T.V. and movies. I have drawn this conclusion from American news sources [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img]


Any way-back on topic...

I dont see anything wrong with these treasure being shown abroad. I do see a problem with this decision being made arbitrarily by the occupying powers if thats the case, but as far as I know the Bagdad museum is still run by the same Iraqis who ran it before the invasion, so I would imagine they were part of this decision making process.

Further more, if these Iraqi museum officials did authorize this, than the Muslim and Arab world wouldn't have no grounds to cry foul and claim the Americans were showing off the spoils of war. Only the extreme fundamentilst could make this claim, and they make all sorts of claims so it doesnt matter anyway.

I am interested in the ancient cultures of the middle east myself and look forward to seeing this exhibit if it comes to Boston, so I might be biased on this topic.

If it turns out that the Iraqi museum officials had no say in this, than it may have the appearance of showing off war booty, even if thats not the intent at heart.

Now this article clearly is about showing off war booty, good or bad:
Story

[ 08-04-2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Now this article clearly is about showing off war booty, good or bad: Story

*reads article. sighs. shakes head sadly*
Again, it's that sort of gloating that doesn't win the US military any new friends. Taking the picture isn't all that bad, putting on display could be historically educational, but putting it on the floor for people to walk all over, well, that just reeks of bully-vanity to me. Pride cometh before a fall.

[Skunk]

I agree with you skunk. You have clearly shown me that America is falling into the fallacy of European imperialism. Evil Republican imperialist have obviously helped relocate treasures lost in looting and then appointed an Italian to put together a show of these treasures to be seen by even more evil Americans.

I can understand why this Italian wanted to display the items abroad - who would want to be in charge of a museum that no-one is currently visiting? Exhibiting the items abroad (esp. in the US) would boost his career, no end. Bagdad museum officials would also stand to gain personally - either by having their name associated with the exhibition, or by traveling with it.

But you know as well as I do (and as Saddam's sons learnt to their cost) that no-one is allowed to BREATH without the permission of the 'Coalition Administration'. The removal of artifacts could *only* occur with the full approval and authorisation of that administration.

Why if those stupid Americans saw these cultural heirlooms they might even appreciate Iraqi heritage and history. We all know how horrible that would be.

The US public has never seen them - so waiting an extra couple of years for an elected Iraqi government to authorise the 'exhibition' would not have hurt them.

To make matters worse, the museums which would show these treasures would bring in money to the Bagdad Museum so that it could restore it's buildings. What a nefarious plan!

You are still thinking in US terms. The Bagdad museum was a national museum, paid for and run by the Iraqi state. It never wanted for cash - the billions of dollars in oil revenue that the country generated was more than adequate to run it.

Even Saddam Hussein recognised the cultural significance of the artifacts that it contained. The museum, if anything, was over-funded during his reign and lavishly decorated to boot. When the US first threatened to invade, Saddam used the national pride in the country's history to rally the people, making references to previous attempts by invaders to conquer 'civilised' Bagdad.

You think that it doesn't matter to Iraqi's? The British museum (state owned and run by the way) is *still* arguing with the Greek and Egytian government over the return of artifacts - taken from their respective countries more than two hundred years ago. It matters - these are state treasures - not theme park rides.

What if it was titled to Saddam Hussein's family, should we ask Husseins's daughters for permission?

First and foremost it was a national museum - period. Secondly, if even Saddam Hussein had titled the contents to himself and his family, normal practice in the Middle East is to confiscate all goods and proceeds earned by criminal activities - so the items would become the ward of state.

And even *if* an item genuinly belonged to Saddam, then look at the British example. The Queen of England is undoubtably the rightful owner of the Crown Jewels. The jewels were either given to or commissioned by her ancesters - her legal ownership is unquestionable. Yet even the Queen recognises their cultural significance and has sworn that she holds them for future generations of Britain. They are never to be sold, broken up or to leave the country.

Remember that these artifacts have never been displayed abroad before - not even in the time before Saddam. They were considered to be state treasures - as important to the nation as the Crown Jewels are to Britain.

The reality is that I'm saddened by so many posting in this forum who delight in believing the worst not only of the American government but its people as well. We are accused of not understanding other nations or cultures but the accusers seem to be no better informed and also seem to have gotten their understanding of American life and culture from movies and TV, which is no more real than a fairy tale.

Where do you get that idea? I have no doubt that the US government intends to return the items after they have been displayed. I equally do not believe that that the average American would see it as a 'parade of war trophies' and would be interested only from an intellectual standpoint.

However, I do believe that this shows a remarkable lack of sensitivity that will further damage the US's public image abroad - and believe it or not - I don't want the anti-US feeling to increase. The world is unstable enough as it is without unneccesary provocation.

[Azred]

Although I would like to see this travelling exhibit (I am a fan of museums), the timing and the circumstances aren't the most wise. Perhaps they should just compile photos of these objects into book form and publish that first, then worry about putting together an exhibit. That way, the objects are available to everyone and the proceeds from book sales can be funneled back to the museum. Oh, well...