Overfishing -- 70% of commercial fish stocks overfished

[Djinn Raffo]

Most farm fish is also pumped full of steroids.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Most farm fish is also pumped full of steroids.

I would surmize grey muscle matter (rather than orange) in farmed Salmon is due to substituting steroid chemical-induced muscle growth for natural muscle development ocurring over 50,000 miles of swimming.

As an aside, I believe the North Atlantic Salmon spends 3 to 4 years at sea before first returning home to spawn, and is 7 years old before its really the marketable commercial Salmon we think of on our plate. These critters simply require too much time before they're mature -- their population cannot sustain food demands.

[ 07-30-2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[pritchke]

Not all species of salmon have that nice pick orange colour in the meat that Atlantic Salmon have. You should check the species? While farmed Atlantic salmon can have a grey meat, many farmers give the salmon a diet of shrimp and krill which is suppose to offset the colour. The salmons diet is also important in obtain the market colour.

As a side I don't agree with farming Salmon, other fish like trout that do not require long journeys I am OK with.

[ 07-30-2003, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Most farm fish is also pumped full of steroids.

The good ole boys I know down in Bama ain't puttin nuffin in their fish. I'm sure some do of course. I could always just go to the lake and fish, which I do as well, but at the farm I practically get a gauranteed catch which is good if your are as unlucky at fishing as I am.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: (...) But I think we SHOULD be willing to trade jobs where extinction and resource depletion are concerned. Their jobs are already being destroyed anyway, it's just the death is currently slow and painful.

Well, of course you are right. But the economical system we live in now - capitalism - wants profits and it want them NOW. And thanks to globalization, state governments find it more and more impossible to regulate, because issues are global, and no international instance currently exists that could relay local governments on global issues. If I support the EU and the UN, imperfect as they are, it is mainly because it is all we have.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I didn't say don't eat meat and don't eat veggies. I kill veggies with great aplomb, in fact. While factory farming of animals has its issues, I think they do not rise to the extinction and resource depletion level of concern that exist for commercial ocean foods. As well, I am okay with eating animals that are organically farmed -- my problem with eating farm animals is factory farming (1. rampant animal abuse, 2. mistrust of the chemicals, hormones, and other farming methods), not my place in the food chain.

Well, what I was trying to say is that the issue of overfishing is but one consequence of what I stated above - the lack of an international power able to regulate the excesses of globalized capitalism. As such, every kind of foood producing is affected - so shifting from eating fish to eating something else is not a viable alternative.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: As a side note, there is a 100:1 ratio between the amount of people you can feed using the same amount of land for crop farming rather than animal farming. Many vegetarians advocate the lifestyle based on the fact it can support a greater population and avoid starvation. So, while all types of farming have ecological issues, veggies certainly have the least based on this fact alone. I won't even bother with a lengthy comparrison of whether pesticides/herbicides outweigh the harm done by pig farms. Of course, I don't advocate this stance -- I think I've made it clear that for me the population problem has only 1 solution -- FEWER PEOPLE. In fact, since using plants only would support more people, I see it as an argument for animal farming -- I want the world to face the tough choices of overpopulation sooner rather than later.

Read this article, Timber, it may give you insights on the "overpopulation issue". [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Skunk]

The waters off the EU are *heavily* regulated - each nation is only allowed to operate a certain number of fishing vessels, using specified nets and methods, and each vessel may not exceed a specified catch tonnage each year. The penalties for exceeding these quotas are very high and frequent breaches can result in the confiscation of the vessels concerned.

Yes, this does mean that fish has become more expensive and, as a result of a further in the cut of fishing vessels a couple years back, many jobs were lost.

Having said that, these actions are preserving the survival of the industry - if there are no fish left, there won't be any work in the industry anyway, will there?

Not all species of salmon have that nice pick orange colour in the meat that Atlantic Salmon have. You should check the species? While farmed Atlantic salmon can have a grey meat, many farmers give the salmon a diet of shrimp and krill which is suppose to offset the colour. The salmons diet is also important in obtain the market colour.

A good point. Scottish farmed Salmon is a wonderful pink colour - and food colouring is banned from the product (if you want to label it Scottish Salmon that this). Also the taste is no different from 'fresh' fish. Again, the fish tends to be a lot more expensive than the salmon from the other side of the pond - but that is consumer choice...

[ 07-31-2003, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[*\Conan/*]

Fish are very well attune to its surroundings and farm raised are good in themselves but you have to feed them something. Thats where the problem comes in. Recently a warning went out on a certain farm raised fish that were contaminted with pcbs.

Yes, this is still a problem in the US besides overfishing in all fish. They were fed ground up baitfish that "contained" traces of pcbs. Many rivers and tributarys still are being leeched in from old plants and dumped batteries from the past

If you eat fish caught out of a river or lake check your local fish advisory's as to how much you may consume on a given calender week. Some streams have a strict catch and release rule. You should always follow these guidelines. Acceptable consumtions must be followed ,as well as, fishing rules.

If you are close to a regular fishing area, that you eat fish from, try taking a ph test with a simple kit from a pet store. You will be surprised at the acid levels and also how people treat water in general. Sad but true.

Sorry to rant on TL, Im with you on this fight also!

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Read this article, Timber, it may give you insights on the "overpopulation issue". [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thanks. Good articles.