Terrorist Paranoia

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Azred: America doesn't need to force its way of life onto anyone. What is really strange is that others are not embracing the American life of freedom on their own. Why would anyone willingly turn away from a positive thing? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

"others"?? And which countries exactly do you mean by that? Why would anyone not want to enjoy the American life of freedom? Hmmm, let me see, well, I happen to quite like the DUTCH way of freedom. I'm free to smoke marihuana, free to have an abortion without fearing some pro-life terrorist murdering the doctor, free to have healthcare even though I can't afford it, free to choose from at least 10 political parties the one that suits me best, free not to be shot by some lunatic because gun possession is much much lower, free in the knowledge that I can never be put on the chair an innocent victim or even a guilty criminal... And no, I have never smoked pot, I would not have an abortion and I pay insurance for my healthcare. Still, it's nice to know we have all those freedoms here. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Why not say "each to their own" instead of "our way is best, I can't believe others don't see that". My country's laws work for me, mostly. But I'm not about to say they'd work for you. For instance, apparently most Americans feel strongly about their gun laws, well, that's fine by me. If the majority of the population wants something, that's usually a good thing to go by. Here, those same gun laws wouldn't work, so I'm glad we don't have them. Your way isn't THE right way, it's the right way for your country and no one likes to be forced to do something, even if the end result is good. It's arrogance not to see some people have vastly different cultures and values, and need to adjust SLOWLY. If all I'd ever seen from the Western World was people on tv throwing chairs at each other in the Jerry Springer show and eating huge portions of junk food they don't need and drinking Coca Cola, I wouldn't want to adopt that culture. Of course this perception of the Western World/the USA would be WRONG, but if it's all people know, teach them otherwise *patiently* and wisely... they don't know any better and how could they?

And yes, this is mostly about countries that people would agree have a "wrong way" - dictatorships in which innocents are killed, countries ruled by fundamentalist governments, for instance. Of course they would be better off if they could change into something like America. But that doesn't happen overnight and you can't force people to accept it overnight. If my country were to be remodelled on an American mold I would protest till I died. Not because I think your way is the wrong way, but simply because there are more right ways to do it.
If you're going to come out and say "well, I only meant those countries you talked about just now, the dictatorships. I didn't mean 'others' to include other Western countries like yours..." Well, you should have specifically said so, because now you sounded just arrogant, because your post implied ALL countries in the world should recognise your way as right, and that other countries are less right. And I'm sure that's not what you truly believe. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-17-2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[johnny]

Originally posted by Azred: America doesn't need to force its way of life onto anyone. What is really strange is that others are not embracing the American life of freedom on their own. Why would anyone willingly turn away from a positive thing? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

Because we have an even more positive thing perhaps ?

[Donut]

Originally posted by Azred: America doesn't need to force its way of life onto anyone. What is really strange is that others are not embracing the American life of freedom on their own. Why would anyone willingly turn away from a positive thing? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

No offence Azred but statements like this are the reason why Americans have a reputation for arrogance. What is strange is that you have no idea of what others feel is important in life.

[Melusine]

Actually Fred I don't think of Americans as arrogant, or of the majority of Americans as arrogant. THAT would be pretty arrogant too. I do think Azred's post expressed arrogance and an undeserved sense of superiority, but thankfully most people don't feel about their countries in the same way.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Melusine: Actually Fred I don't think of Americans as arrogant, or of the majority of Americans as arrogant. THAT would be pretty arrogant too. I do think Azred's post expressed arrogance and an undeserved sense of superiority, but thankfully most people don't feel about their countries in the same way.

Whoa!!! I never said they were. I said they had a reputation for arrogance. It only takes one or two statements like Azred's to propogate that reputation.

[ 07-17-2003, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

[Melusine]

I know Fred!! Of course I know that, I know *you* [img]smile.gif[/img] LOL, let there be no misunderstanding about that. All I'm saying is, with whom do they have this reputation? Certainly not with most members of this forum.

[Timber Loftis]

Very good post, Melusine.

I'll take up for Azred. I think his meaning was regarding embracing freedom more than "American" freedom. I think he meant why would anyone turn away from a free way of life. I don't think he was splitting hairs between American freedom and Dutch freedom.

[Animal]

Originally posted by Azred: America doesn't need to force its way of life onto anyone. What is really strange is that others are not embracing the American life of freedom on their own. Why would anyone willingly turn away from a positive thing? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

Just because you think it's positive, you asume that everyone else should and therein lies the major problem. As strange as it sounds, maybe some people don't want the American way of life.

[Azred]

Well, I finally managed to cause a little controversy. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

I don't disagree that my viewpoint implies arrogance, because it is arrogant. [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] Yes, I do believe that the American way is the best way, but because I am a realist I know that it is not the only way. Many countries enjoy freedom, and why shouldn't they?
However, one must not make the mistake of thinking that I would like to force the "American way" onto anyone; I would never presume to be that arrogant. What good is a life of freedom if it is forced onto you?

Now allow me to make one more statement that probably won't win me any friends (and apologies to Timber, who did actually side with me (will wonders never cease? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] )). I don't care if other nations or people choose not to adopt an American lifestyle, because I am not out to make converts. If someone decides to make a choice with which I may not totally agree, then that is their business and not mine. To each their own, I always say.

So yes, Melusine, there are many paths yet only one truth. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Donut: No offence Azred but statements like this are the reason why Americans have a reputation for arrogance. What is strange is that you have no idea of what others feel is important in life.

Of course I don't--I am not someone else because I am me. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] And yes, those sorts of statements do cause the reputation, as I stated above. Fortunately, I never claim to be perfect.
***************
No, Timber, I don't like to split hairs--I like rabbits! Azred nervously looks around, hoping Charean heard him. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Animal: Just because you think it's positive, you asume that everyone else should and therein lies the major problem. As strange as it sounds, maybe some people don't want the American way of life.

Well, I don't assume that other people think like me; I don't like being an ass. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] Heaven forbid that everyone think like me! [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] *shudder* Scary thought.
That is why I say that everyone should choose for themselves, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily understand their choice.