American families rejecting French exchange students

Originally posted by WillowIX: What kind of a choice is that? Turning a student down because of skin color, nationality etc. I'm sorry but anyone making a choice on such a premise only is IMO a racist. If their base their decision on nationality in this case solely that I feel that it is right to question these families. After all then it would be OK for schools to turn down their children's applications because their color of the skin isn't "the correct one". Yes I hope they learn that actions always have consequences. Perhaps they will learn that some people will never let go of a grudge. (OK so the Iraqi war is probably to near in time for that but I bet some southerners still hold a grudge towards yanks and vice versa. )

Willow, while it does indeed constitute racism a person has to have the right to make any choice they choose in who they invite to their home, otherwise they have no rights at all. If you force people into their homes, that is called Tyrany...and even the government cannot quarter its troops in peoples homes against their wills.

Originally posted by Donut: Of course people make their own choice of who to invite into their own house and give their hospitality to. In the long run the students are probably better off not being exposed to such bigotry and small mindedness.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Moiraine: What I understood of what MagiK says is this : These exchanges youngsters are students. Students have been participating in anti-war protests, and they have yelled anti-american slogans, burnt the U.S. flag, chopped american heads and played football on them and pissed on the remains (nah, here I am exaggerating a LITTLE bit , but I would really like to see those headlines he mentions, since I couldn't find any mention of U.S. flag burning anywhere) - therefore ALL these exchange youngsters are guilty towards U.S. people, hence it's fair that they suffer the consequences thereof ... Watch the morning news..oops sorry you don't live here. Im sure your television has shown the same headlines. You have to watch the "news" to see this stuff. And of course you don't see it right now...apparently you missed it but the war was over in a couple of weeks. ALl these nice reasoning assuming of course that ALL students were anti-war (wrong), then that ALL of them participated in protests (wrong), then that ALL of those who were protesting against war were in fact protesting against the U.S. people (wrong) and then that ALL of them did it in a violent way (wrong). It is called "Sending a Message" again I suppose that might be a dificult concept. My first reaction about this bit of news was akin to Donut's, that if that is the way they would have been welcomed, it's much better for them that they stay home. Being a Mum, if that had happened to my son, I would be hard put to explain to him that it was not personal, and that he should not feel angry towards America in general, as this comes only from a few petty people as alas exist in every society. Apparently the number of people who disagree with your sentiments must be significant or else the press wouldn't have made such abig deal about it....or would they..say maybe to further fuel the anti-american sentiment and sell more papers? (note: I said anti-american sentiment, I didn't call any one anti-american) I heartily wish those narrow-minded U.S. people will NOT bring America to suffer the consequences of their action - which would be misunderstanding and anger from French people who were ready to go see America with an open heart and mind. Yeah, american people are soooo narrow minded. A nation and its children dick around with their country and they have the nerve to take it personally. tsk tsk tsk, Record numbers of student protestors take to the streets and those ignornat silly narrow minded Americans have the nerve to decide not to let students from that nation into their homes...how dare they....Think I'll go eat some toast and think bad thoughts about them.

[ 07-08-2003, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[johnny]

I don't think she meant ALL Americans here MagiK, just the ones who make such a fuss about French exchange students. At least that's what i think she meant.

Originally posted by johnny: I don't think she meant ALL Americans here MagiK, just the ones who make such a fuss about French exchange students. At least that's what i think she meant.

Probably, since she isn't generally one to make broad sweeping generalisations like I do . I was just trying to illustrate the point. In any case...I seriously suspect the issue was "hyped" by the reporting agency to sell more papers, rather than just reporting a fact. Otherwise they would have been specific with numbers and such.

Edit: for example...I recently read about a big Brouhaha over Lance Armstrong and his lack of popularity with "all persons french" which again seemed like the issue was pumped up far beyond what is actually going on.



[ 07-08-2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Originally posted by MagiK: Probably, since she isn't generally one to make broad sweeping generalisations like I do . I was just trying to illustrate the point. ...

I am afraid, Magik, "broad sweeping generalisations" is far too lofty and generous an euphemism for the plethora of utter ignorance, arrogance and condescendence you displayed throughout this thread and especially in your post to Moiraine.

While it has happened fairly often that your "clumsiness" has led you to offend people while debating, as far as I know, that was almost always inadvertently so. In this instance here though, you have clearly exhibited an appalling and mean-spirited intent to ridicule and insult.That is very unlike you, so that I cannot help to ask myself where that stems from. Unfortunately, I am beginning to think that there is only one possible answer to that, which is anything but flattering for you. Courtesy demands that I spare you the embarrassment of publicly analyzing you, but I do think that it is high time that you start to contemplate the question yourself and then get your act together. That is, of course, if you want to give people like me, whose belief system and cultural background is very different from yours, but who nevertheless like you, the chance to keep respecting you and your ideas/opinions.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by johnny: I don't think she meant ALL Americans here MagiK, just the ones who make such a fuss about French exchange students. At least that's what i think she meant.

Of course, Johnny, I didn't mean ALL Americans ! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Two logical reasons why it couldn't been read that way.

One : if I thought all U.S. people thought like these ones do, I wouldn't have posted that last sentence wishing that America as a whole won't suffer from what a handful of individuals has done. I would probablyhave said "America go to hell" instead ...

Two : What the heck would I be doing posting here if I believed they represented all America ? I am no kind of a masochist !

[Moiraine]

MagiK, a couple of comments about your reaction to my post. Nah, let it be three comments.

First - the news that I happened to watch during the war all showed that the peace protests were remarkably devoid of anti-Americanism and non violent (I said "remarkably" because of the number of people in those marchs, such numbers statistically being bound to include a few jerks). Hence I asked for your sources - which I can't help but notice you didn't give.

Second - actually, I heard about that news in this very thread, not in the French media. I didn't find any article about it in both newspapers I read every day. So much for media trying to "fuel the anti-american sentiment" ...

And last - I am throwing the "a nation and its children dick around with their country" right back at you. Your government did "dick around" with mine and all the U.N. members -if that's the way you want it to be discussed.

[Cloudbringer]

Ok, time out! MagiK, it's obvious Moiraine was discussing the few small-minded people who arbitrarily changed their minds about hosting a student based on his/her nationality, not the entire country.

MagiK and Ramon: Let's keep the personal issues off the board. MagiK, your post to Moiraine comes across as baiting and antagonistic, whether you intended it that way or not. Ramon- in future, please pm opinons of that nature. Posting observations of someone's character, intent or general nature in a thread invites a flamewar and it can off topic a thread and torpedo the topic faster than anything else I can think of.

Back on track, now, ok?

Personally, I don't think anyone should be forced to accept a student if they have changed their minds for any reason but I am in full agreement that it's best for the STUDENT not to go there if that reason has to do with their nation's politics and international decisions. It could only end up being a miserable introduction to the country and after all, aren't student exchanged meant to open up new vistas and broaden horizions? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Night Stalker]

OK [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] but ....

Moiraine .... what's up with the man/goat asking "Yes?" in your sig?

That said. Magik I certainly agree that people have the right to deny anyone they want (without a warrent) access into their homes. I also think that these students are better off NOT being forced into the homes of people so close minded as these. They do miss out on the opportunity to come here, but, maybe next year. And yes, people have the right to protest, but we might want to considder what we are saying when "Sending a message".

I can understand frustration when a seaming stream of "The Big Bad USA Meanies did ...." articles get posted by "those danged forieners". I find it tiresome to at times. But we don't have to be on the defensive all the time.