GUildWars Factions

[Bozos of Bones]

First of all, you insult me b calling me a closet WoW player
I could think of several known sites that place GW higher than WoW.
Secondly, I never said GW is all original, or that noone ever said they said such a thing in an interview. What I am saying is this:
WoW has not introduced a single novelty that wasn't already in one of the top-selling MMORPGs.
GW has not introduced a single thing that was copied from WoW simply because there is nothing to copy from WoW.
And you can only run away from mobs in these cases:
1. you are on a run to an outpost/town/area(not really applicable in Factions and Nightfall)
2. you know you will have a safe place to rest afterwards(rarely applicable)
3. you botched a fight, but have anough room behind you to run away from the fight safely.
And none of these really happen during normal play.

Look, we can go on about this for ages. You prefer WoW, I prefer GW. Both of us can conjure up a gajillion sites, reviews, comments and top lists that confirm our beliefs(mine especially). So let's agree to disagree, and respect each other's opinions, however wong yours may be, ok?

[SpiritWarrior]

I agree that we could go on about it for yonks.

Also agreed, WoW didn't create anything unique to MMO's per se, but it is known for raising the bar by perfectly blending all these aspects.
However, there were some specific things that I read about which the article said were ideas taken from WoW. It was about a year ago and I remember seeing the patchnotes in comparison to the changes made in the GW world and thinking "My god it's true". They were shown side-by-side to illustrate with dates and all.

As far as success goes, WoW is on the top. Key in most successful MMO into Google for confirmation. 7 million players and counting with the first expansion on the way very shortly. I know in my heart i'll see you in Azeroth when the Burning Crusade hits, solemnly using your GW discs as coasters.

[Luvian]

First of all, number of customers mean nothing. The average customer is an easily uninfluenced idiot. Why do you think AOL has ever been successful?

I don't want to talk about WOW, I want to talk about GW. But out of memory the only thing WOW invented is the rest status. Oh! And maybe giving rage to warrior and energy to rogues instead of mana, but I'm not definite on this. First time used in a MMORPG, but I think I remember action games that had similar systems.. They did implement old features really well, but it wasn't new.

Now to talk about Guild Wars. You're underestimating the PVP and to a lesser extend the PVE of Guild Wars. The combat system of GW is exactly like the system of collectible card games like Magic: the Gathering, and this is a great part of the "thinking" part of the game for me. You have hundred of skills, you can only bring 8. Which ones do you bring? You can't be good at everything, you have to specialize. And then when you think you figured out what you wanted, out come a new xp pack with hundred of new skills, disrupting the previous balance and offering new opportunities. Then you don't actually HAVE all those skill, just like in MAGIC, you actually have to go out and get those rare ones.

Success in GW is not based on items you have or time you played. There's barely even an item system. Success is entirely about yous skills as a player, those of your character, and teamwork.

Most of the fun for me is about creating skill templates. I spend nights unlocking new skills, mixing and matching for more potential, going out to test those builds, and then adapting them to what I found. Last time I played I made a new pure Air Elementalist skill set based on the new nightfall skills, that's totally beaten my old Air/Earth skill set I had before. She's really really fun. I also made a new necro, and I'm experimenting with the new Ranger skills. I'm having tons of fun. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally posted by Luvian: First of all, number of customers mean nothing. The average customer is an easily uninfluenced idiot. Why do you think AOL has ever been successful? I don't want to talk about WOW, I want to talk about GW. But out of memory the only thing WOW invented is the rest status. Oh! And maybe giving rage to warrior and energy to rogues instead of mana, but I'm not definite on this. First time used in a MMORPG, but I think I remember action games that had similar systems.. They did implement old features really well, but it wasn't new. Now to talk about Guild Wars. You're underestimating the PVP and to a lesser extend the PVE of Guild Wars. The combat system of GW is exactly like the system of collectible card games like Magic: the Gathering, and this is a great part of the "thinking" part of the game for me. You have hundred of skills, you can only bring 8. Which ones do you bring? You can't be good at everything, you have to specialize. And then when you think you figured out what you wanted, out come a new xp pack with hundred of new skills, disrupting the previous balance and offering new opportunities. Then you don't actually HAVE all those skill, just like in MAGIC, you actually have to go out and get those rare ones. Success in GW is not based on items you have or time you played. There's barely even an item system. Success is entirely about yous skills as a player, those of your character, and teamwork. Most of the fun for me is about creating skill templates. I spend nights unlocking new skills, mixing and matching for more potential, going out to test those builds, and then adapting them to what I found. Last time I played I made a new pure Air Elementalist skill set based on the new nightfall skills, that's totally beaten my old Air/Earth skill set I had before. She's really really fun. I also made a new necro, and I'm experimenting with the new Ranger skills. I'm having tons of fun. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yeah some of the things you mentioned were on that list. I agree about the whole AOL argument of course, my point was just that it is the most successful. My point was not that it was the best, since that is only my opinion and as much as I disagree I can't force it.

Isn't the nights spent unlocking skills the same as farming for items or your class set though? In this case it is simply a skill that is your reward.

The 8 skills max I just find to be annoying. I would appreciate the system if it wasn't so black and white but come on, you need certain skills as an assasin for example. So that's 3-6 slots gone (depending on what core abilities you wanna bring on your assassin). Then take a heal and a rez signet and you're done. Sure, you can mix and match but in ways you'd be gimping yourself wouldn't you? I personally think the 8 slots is more of a restriction than a strategic opportunity to shine in a certain situation.

What people don't get is I am not bashing GW but just defending WoW. Nor am I blindly defending WoW. I picked up Nightfall there last week! I am always hoping the next expansion will be the one that gets me into it but it doesn't happen. I tried regular GW again a few days ago, replayed the prophecies campaign for a bit. After 1 hour I saw enough Devourers to make me never want to visit that campaign again. I tried my copy of Nightfall but only played a bit. While I really like the new theme and planned to get it the moment TDC posted it on the forums, I find myself thinking *groan* "more of the same stuff". The story is interesting, i'll say that but I amn't sure I can put in the energy as it feels like a chore to me.