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#1 |
Zhentarim Guard
![]() Join Date: May 14, 2001
Location: Leeds, England
Posts: 384
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There are a couple of other threads going on where I see comments regarding the lack of quality thieves in SOA. I was wondering what makes the situation regarding thieves different from that of any other class (especially compared to BG1)
Looking at Thieves first - it takes two to really excell anyway, unless all you're looking for is "find traps" and open locks - in which case, isn't Jan the man (or gnome). Imoen has good pick pockets. Nalia's skills are more a bonus to her magery. Mages - apart from Edwin, all are severely limited by INT. This class more than any other begs to be played by the PC, no other way to get the best abilities, coupled with the great equipment for them. BUT it's possible to go without one. Clerics (Druids) - A requirement for any group - non of the NPCs are brilliant, but IMO a brilliant cleric is not _that_ much better than an average one (compare to mages, where good is much better). Which gives you chance to pick on other abilities. Fighter types - best selection, but probably only one outstanding candidate in Korgan (Mazzy second maybe). Minsc is nice, but could be better (no real specialisation). Keldorn is only an average paladin (but that obviously gives him a certain huge advantage). Where's the archers? (missiles can still be useful), where's the grandmastery skills (Korgan excepted)? In summary, I don't think any of the NPCs are brilliant, but they are certainly more than adequate for compensating where your own skills lack. I found in BG1 that it was possible to go through most of the story with just the NPCs (I tagged along for the ride). SOA forces you into using _everyones_ skills. The fact that none of those are outstanding makes that better IMO. Thoughts? |
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#2 |
Elite Waterdeep Guard
![]() Join Date: February 19, 2002
Location: Nord Iron
Posts: 21
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My Main char is a specialist mage so i needed a lot of heavy fighters up the front to serve as a bit of protection. I thought that the choice was pretty good. Granted as you said there isnt much specialisation apart from korgan but he was ruled outa me team cos the rest were all Good alignment. I found that although the NPC's lacked specialisation a greater empahsis on magic use with wider range of spells and magic wepaons etc made up for this lack of special skills.
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#3 |
Hathor
![]() Join Date: February 18, 2002
Location: Vienna
Age: 43
Posts: 2,248
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I bought SoA when it first appeared and have walked through the game
a lot of times. But I only recently made an honest approach to playing Thief (dual Fighter/Thief actually). IT ROCKS!!! However, I find the NPCs rather pleasing. Except for Edwin all the mages are dual-class (I don't really use Jan as a mage) which makes them able to wear Elven Chain, still being a straight mage. Mazzy is a great archer (her Short Bow skills make her, what I call MachinegunMazzy), Korgan is great but specialized in the wrong weapon class (just no nice axes around), Minsc mkaes a nice tank too. Anomen and Viconia are great clerics (depending on your alignment, who can be improved with the right weapon (Yes I'm talking Crom Faeyr). Biggest dissapointment for me is Keldorn, because I think Inquisitors are just Paladins without Paladin abilities (no Healing, no Spells, no turning undead).
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#4 |
Symbol of Cyric
![]() Join Date: August 19, 2001
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 47
Posts: 1,224
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well, i had to SK imoens INT to 18, because i had her with an 18 in the original bg. i gave her the tome, because my elven fighter/mage already had an intelligence of 18. i dont see how she lost that intelligence when going into SOA, so i "fixed" that problem. so all in all, i think Imoen is a great mage (in my group that is). i dont like edwin, and cant stand any other NPC's, aside from Nalia, and Minsc. Hmmmmm, oh well.
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#5 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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I just have one thing that i disagree with, and thats Keldorn. He rocks, an ace fighter, the only person in your party who can wield the Holy Avenger (unless you have a paladin) and his special quick abilities to true sight and dispel magic rock. You won't find another NPC thats as good as him. THe only drawback is his dexterity, which can be fixed by those helpful little gauntlets of dexterity.
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#6 |
White Dragon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Join Date: April 1, 2001
Location: UK
Age: 45
Posts: 1,893
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Every NPC in SoA has a weakness; be it Keldorn's/Cernd's poor DEX as befits an ageing Paladin/guy who turns into a wolf, Anomen's WIS for his closed-mindedness, Jan's STR as a small gnome, Haer'Dalis/Aerie's/Viconia's CON for being really fragile pansies, etc. Learning how to compensate those weaknesses - either by offsetting them with magic items, or partnering them with other NPCs, or boosting their strengths to balance - is one of the most important ways to make a successful party, IMO.
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#7 |
Manshoon
![]() Join Date: January 25, 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 216
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I'll semi-quote what another poster said about this " evil aligned characters are more straight forward in class make-up while good characters are mostly mixed in skill."
My cool guy was Korgan until I bumped em for Keldorn the so-so pally. IMO, he ain't even good. He deals out mediocre damage with his new draggy sword but that's about all...well his true sight helps too so I have to give em some credit. Korgan is straightforward axe, and there's decent stuff for him to use( I see alot more +3 axes than +3 anything besides bows). I had to get Minsc 3 stars in two weapon style and then go for flails. He's now rocking a bit better than before when I had em using sword and shield. Finally at the end of chapter two and he gets decent enough with flail of ages and the other flails which are store-bought. Minsc can take the hits as does Korgan. Keldorn can take some magical hits. The other guys who are considered to be fighters are somewhat frail. That blade Valygar is weak imo, but this is probably because I picked em up late. The bard? Didn't like his puny butt, but I know I'm missing out on a good fun character - I just don't see em being a solid anything. Yoshimo is really okay for what he is. I don't see why many ppl hate em besides the spoiler stuff later on in the game. And for pick pockets, any of the thieves using potions will have the same effect. I didn't like the mage/thief deal, but I can see how many ppl favor fighters and would probably use a mage/thief better than using one mage and one rogue. Gives em more flexibility yet can hinder other players in the same time. No solid good mage. I play a rogue so naturally I don't want a class/rogue combo. I chose Aerie as my mage because cleric/mage is pretty good and evens out my party. If one wants a solid cleric, pick Viconia. I believe Cernd - tho I hate em- is a great druid if we looking at spells and his wisdom alone. Too light on armor since he's a shape shifter. Then ya get the mixed good guys - Jaheira and Anomen. I prefer both of em together. Two melee guys with decent ac and different spells. If something happens to one, use the other. I prefer this over having something bad happen to the priest and you are out of luck. Mazzy - she's a great archer imo. Well she's like the best they have. My play style doesn't revolve around someone sitting back with a bow however( I did enjoy her short time with me and was thinking of keeping her until I needed more melee peeps and she didn't cut it). I pull with Aerie to the ambush spot and let loose with Minsc, Keldorn, Jaheira, Anomen, and me. Mazzy is better with a bow than with using weapons. Her melee skills and weapons available just don't cut it. Right now I hope Keldorn comes back from his wife...I hate her. [img]smile.gif[/img] I ran that part of the story 3 different times and finally tried to make sure he didn't see his woman. Nope, he still decides to go when I hit the district so I hope he comes back to meet me. I think I'm more stuck on the sword Carsomyr he has than him. I haven't tried Edwin, but as said above...most of the evil guys are straightforward and better at being their class. I doubt I'll keep em since he doesn't equate into the picture. There has been only a handful of times where I wished I had two mages. Seems the good guys are more flexible while the bad guys have more power for their class. I like -some-flxibility but not at the cost of having no really great npcs.
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#8 |
Dracolisk
![]() Join Date: September 16, 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Age: 48
Posts: 6,901
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Antonius, people complain about the lack of NPC Thieves because there IS a severe lack of Thieves. Having only ONE Thief that can actually gain levels is just ridiculous--it leaves you with 3 choices: 1) Play a Thief yourself, 2) Be forced to use that character, or 3) Carry around about a million Potions of Perception. I think the lack of NPCs in general in BG2 is just BioWare's way of encouraging us to try Multiplayer, as well. I'm doing a litle of that: I'm almost done with an Evil game of BG1. When I take my guy into BG2, I'm also going to create a second character as well, an exact copy of Montaron. None of the NPC Thieves are really Evil enough to belong in an Evil party, so I'll do the Harper quest, get Monty's body, cast Raise Dead, and.... pretend it worked.
As for the other NPCs.....None of the NPC Priests are very good, when you count things like Anomen's DEX and Viconia's CON. But luckily, there's a good selection of them, so getting one Priest and one Backup isn't difficult. Also, with Healing Potions and the various items that give Regeneration, you don't even need a backup Priest. Wizards: There are PLENTY of damned good Wizards out there, no matter what their INT is. Why? INT only matters while the wizard is scribing spells. You're telling me there aren't enough Potions to turn even Minsc into a genius long enough to copy a few scrolls? Warriors: Plenty of those, but sadly only Korgan and Anomen make good Tanks--the rest of them seem to have chosen either 2-Handed Weapon or Dual-Wielding. Still, Keldorn with the DEX Gauntlets or Mazzy with a Girdle will be fine, for any gamer worth his salt. In summary: There's at least a halfway-decent selection for each of the main groups--except Thieves. I wish BG2 had the same variety of recruitable NPCs as BG1 did....I miss Kivan, and Coran's refusing to join my party is completely out of character. "Life is adventure or nothing."
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#9 |
Zhentarim Guard
![]() Join Date: May 14, 2001
Location: Leeds, England
Posts: 384
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Six,
INT does make a different for the mages - maximum spell level and number of spells per level can matter. Ever want to cast level 9 spells? Tough, unless you're a mage yourself. Want someone you can actually wield the best weapons with the best ability - you need to use a fighter PC. What exactly do you want this NPC thief to be able to do? The way the theif skills are organised means that you're never going to a get a single thief you is good at locks, pockets, traps and stealth. Unless thieving is a large part of your game (then why not BE a thief) surely the ability to detect traps and pick locks are the ones to concentrate on. My own Thief is an Assassin, but the low skill levels means that he needs a backup thief (someone to detect traps) so that he can excel in his chosen profession. This is much more so than BG1 due to the greater number of skills to spread those points around. |
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#10 |
Hathor
![]() Join Date: February 18, 2002
Location: Vienna
Age: 43
Posts: 2,248
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i agree that Keldorns True sight and dispel magic are EXTREMELY helpful. Yet he disappointed me when I saw him first. I was glad to have a Paladin as another Healer in my party (I started my first run through SoA on Core Rule diff and just hated to sleep). and then he is nothing but a tank that can't specialize in weapons for more than 2 slots. The really sad thing is, that there are not enough evil characters around to make a completely evil 6-member-party in solo game.
As for Mages: Nalia becomes surprisingly powerful in the course of the game and Edwin is just "masterful". It's also sad that the only bard in the game is a Blade, so he gets a downgrade on the Bard's specialty Lore (not that you'd need it anyway). However, maybe the NPCs have their strong sides and their weaknesses -as every RPG char should have - because the guys at Bioware didn't want to sit endless nights to roll a 94 ![]() or because they are no Bhaalspawn like you (what about Imoen then)
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