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Old 01-27-2003, 03:59 AM   #101
Memnoch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jan:
Great stuff.

What's the name of the books where you can find all tihs awesome stuff??
Books? There's a lot of books...some of the old Planescape stuff, the new Manual of the Planes, some of the novels, some of the stuff from the WotC website...I've accumulated this knowledge over the past few years, since I started getting really interested in this stuff. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 01-27-2003, 05:49 AM   #102
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Okay I see Memmy. I'm still a newbi in the world of roleplaying.

Anyway, great stuff you post. I'll stick to that. Keep up the brilliant work [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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Old 01-27-2003, 06:33 AM   #103
Indemaijinj
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Some errata:

The Blood War doesn't concern you??

While it's right that it's primary vestiges; the actual armed conflict on Avernus, Oinos and the Plain of Infinite Portals are not something you should be involved with. To be possibly sure not to be involved with it is not always a simple question of not travelling to said layers. In the city of Sigil countless baatezu and tanar'ri recruiters lurk anywhere with a multitude of schemes to lure people to sign their baleful contracts.

Also many scholars argue that the main reason why devils and demons go to such great length to subvert people to evil is that their souls are needed in the Blood War.

But then again, it cannot be said enough times: "There is nothing to gain from participating in the Blood War!!"
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Old 01-27-2003, 04:28 PM   #104
xanderwatts
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Nothing to gained from fighting on the wrong side certainly, but have you considered what will happen if the war ever reaches a conclusion, and there is a single (ignore the yugoloths) race of demons to concentrate their energy on causing hell to literally break loose throughout every plane.
When the demons or devils are the undisputed practitioners of true evil over the entire multiverse, them the mortals can really start to worry.
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Old 01-27-2003, 08:52 PM   #105
MrSmith
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so to summarize:

the DEMONS of Abyss (CE) fight a neverending war with the DEVILS of 9 hells (LE) with yugloths (NE) playing both sides. oh and you should stay out of it.

how do gods like bhaal, bane and cyric play into all this?
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Old 01-28-2003, 07:37 AM   #106
Memnoch
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrSmith:
so to summarize:

the DEMONS of Abyss (CE) fight a neverending war with the DEVILS of 9 hells (LE) with yugloths (NE) playing both sides. oh and you should stay out of it.

how do gods like bhaal, bane and cyric play into all this?
Bhaal, Bane and Cyric are deities and Greater Powers, which means they (excluding Bhaal, who has carked it) are far more powerful than even the mightiest demon prince or any archdevil save Asmodeus (who has the status of a Greater Power). Also, a deity's power fluxes and wanes according to how many worshippers they have. Dieties can also grant spells - generally devils, demons etc cannot.

Some of the greatest archdevils and demon princes are about equivalent in power to a lesser deity. This is how I see the totem pole:

  • SUPREME POWERS: eg Ao, Highgod, Chaos
  • GREATER POWERS: eg. Tyr, Mystra, Cyric, Bane, Shar, Horus-Re, Corellon Larethian; Asmodeus, King of the Nine Hells
  • INTERMEDIATE POWERS (eg. Lolth, Umberlee, Tymora, Hanali Celanil, Isis, Set);
  • LESSER POWERS (eg. Torm, Tiamat, Loviatar, Waukeen, Azuth) as well as Abyssal Princes (eg. Demogorgon, Orcus, Graz'zt) as well as the rest of the Lords of the Nine (eg. Mephistopheles, Baalzebul, Belial); the Fairy Queen of the eladrin (Arborea); the Five Companions of the guardinals (Elysium); the Throne Archons of Mt Celestia; the General of Gehenna (Lord of the Yugoloths)
  • DEMIPOWERS (eg. Jergal, Gargauth, Ulutiu, Gwaeron Windstrom) as well as Lesser Abyssal Lords (eg. Yeenoghu, Kostchtchie) as well as the Dark Eight and other Dukes of Hell (eg. Bael, Baalberith); solars; seraphs.
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Old 01-31-2003, 02:10 PM   #107
Raistlin Majere
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BUMP

Anymore?
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Old 01-31-2003, 02:41 PM   #108
Raistlin Majere
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ok then memmy. could you link me to a site from where you got youre version of the monstrous manual(i assume youre using one, though you might actually have it as a book, not on youre pc.)if you got it from the net. or if you use anything you got from the internet, could you link me there. not sure if youve put a link to somewhere already, havent quite finished the whole thread, though im getting there [img]smile.gif[/img] .
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Old 02-01-2003, 10:04 AM   #109
Memnoch
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Quote:
Originally posted by xanderwatts:
Nothing to gained from fighting on the wrong side certainly, but have you considered what will happen if the war ever reaches a conclusion, and there is a single (ignore the yugoloths) race of demons to concentrate their energy on causing hell to literally break loose throughout every plane.
When the demons or devils are the undisputed practitioners of true evil over the entire multiverse, them the mortals can really start to worry.
Good point.

The Blood War is all consuming and most think that it's a never-changing, futile stalemate; but each side has come very close to defeating the other on many occasions. Every inch of the planes, at one time or another, has had blood spilled on it from this conflict. Even the mighty archons and solars wield little power in the war. The thing that many "berks" (planar term for morons) don't realize is that no matter who you are, it doesn't matter in the grand theme of things. No matter how many pit fiends or balors you kill, you aren't going to change much.

Why don't the forces of good try to stop them or swing the balance? Well the answer isn't a simple one. First of all, it is the very nature of good to stop evil, not smite it. Doing such an atrocious act as killing billions of lemures (the "cannon fodder" of the baatezu) is still killing in any light. Likewise, remember there is still a division line in the forces of good, law and chaos. No matter how hard you try you can't get anyone to agree to one another. The archons wanna destroy the tanar'ri while the eladrin want to take out the baatezu. The aasimon, depending on whether or not they come from Mount Celestia or Arborea, will want to take out one or the other. You can't get them to agree on anything. Second, if you help eradicate the forces of chaos and evil, the tanar'ri, the baatezu are going to turn their attention toward something else; like the modrons of Mechanus or the slaadi of Limbo. In the end you are stuck with someone always being at war. What hope would the Lady of Pain have trying to keep out the entire race of baatezu or even the mighty Mediators of Mechanus? In reality very little. Both of these races have been warring since the beginning of time and have perfected their races for war against any foe. It's easier just to make sure they keep fighting each other.

The thing about the Blood War is that it is all consuming. It has bent EVERYTHING in its path. The noble archons have even resorted to supplying one side or another with weapons. The Blood War creates a great need for supplies, weapons, troops and leaders. Many "bashers" (adventurers) capitalize on these needs to earn some "jink" (planar term for money) of their own. Some "brave" (some might say foolhardy) planewalkers deal in weapons or mercenaries with either or both sides. The yugoloths, natives of the Gray Waste and Gehenna, devote a great deal of time and energy in helping both sides - but only so they can earn a fair profit.

People said that the tale of war is written by the victors so you won't ever get an accurate retelling of the war. That's the one role that the yugoloths fill that may be of usefulness. The arcaenoloths sit next to their furnaces on Gehenna and write what really happens during the Blood War. The only problem is no basher's ever been able to bring back a yugoloth text from Gehenna alive. [img]graemlins/firedevil.gif[/img]
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Old 02-01-2003, 10:09 AM   #110
Memnoch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raistlin Majere:
ok then memmy. could you link me to a site from where you got youre version of the monstrous manual(i assume youre using one, though you might actually have it as a book, not on youre pc.)if you got it from the net. or if you use anything you got from the internet, could you link me there. not sure if youve put a link to somewhere already, havent quite finished the whole thread, though im getting there [img]smile.gif[/img] .
For 3rd Ed stats www.creaturecatalog.com is a good one - they did all the conversions from 2nd to 3rd Ed.
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