Summon elemental problem

[justindavis]

Anyone run into problems castin summon elemental during combat? If there are too many unfriendlies, I am not able to cast. Under the same circumstances, I am able to throw a canned elemental though.

Any suggestions? I have tried even in a non "confined" space with no luck.

[Brian]

I solved the problem by constantly moving the targetting staff backwards fowards,side etc. If it still wont take try using a smaller elemental .if this dosnt work then the space you are trying to set down the elemental is not apropriate.BRIAN.

[dplax]

What do you get when you throw a canned elemental?

[Ziggurat]

Canned Elemental calls an elemental spirit, the element is random and the strength is based on success of throw and skill (artifact?). But I can get them to appear with low artifact and throwing skills, so something is weird there. Also, the stronger ones may have less HP, but I guess they have more protections or other skills. You have to aim for an open spot and I have less luck (or zero?) when I move the party first even a short distance in a move.

Underwater, of course, you will see no fire elemental and it fizzles. They can be of great help against large parties and for distraction. I found just one can distract a certain bronze beast later. But they are iffy to cast, I never count on them, they are a bonus.

yeah, if you cant get the action to accept placing the "staff" in a given location in the room, it's usually because there's not enough "room" in the room. to my eyes, wiz 8 is overly pedantic about this need for space.

between that and the reasons zig gave, i generally agree with his assessment - canned elementals are unreliable and therefore only rarely used.

[Loudhy]

Hello,
that's right. I've discovered the same effect. IMO the only solution is : Before the combat starts you must think about using a Canned Elemental or summoning it. You have a enough space at the beginning of a combat so you can place the "Staff" without problems. If the enemies surround you, the Elemental will be placed in the next free space near you.
Dungeons may be to small to place them so I usually spare potions and in my magic parties I summoned them with Lvl 1 or Lvl 2.
Canned Elementals : I never got them beneath Lvl 6 (Potion level). I usually build up the Throwing Skill to 40 ( I think Artifacts is not necessary because my characters with throwing skill never build it up so at least they have only 25 ) . From my experience most of them are "Earth" followed by "Fire" and at least "Water". But Ziggurat maybe right and it's only random.

P.S.
Sorry Sultan , I disagree with your last sentence. From my posts you know that I use them often especially in heavy combats and with my skills I never discovered a backfire or something else. So IMO they very useful because they can make heavier combats really easy .

Greetings

no apologies needed, loudhy. i'm sure your opinion is well-founded on your experience.

since there are a few situations where i'll use elementals, and there have been a couple of parties of mine that have benefitted from them more than others, i freely acknowledge they have value in the game.

for me, it comes down to not wanting to rely on something/someone else, and i structure my parties so we dont have to. that's not to say that this is better - just different. i know that the parties that used them (elementals) more effectively could do a lot of things the others couldnt, simply because i didnt have the big meleers taking up character slots.

and that's all part of the wonder and fun i get out of wiz 8 - there's always another way to skin the cat that is an equitable alternative to what you've tried before. or, to speak more plainly, the game is varied and balanced.

[dplax]

I found that elementals are good in situations, where you want the enemy distracted, while you take out other enemies, or while you put up your buffs, or against a stronger enemy gain some time to pump damage into them from afar.

I found that in the places I would need elementals the most, like larger battles turncoat was usually a better idea, because for the same amount of mana, you get a good guy to fight on your side, and since his ex-friends are also going to kill him, you take care of an extra monster. I am not saying that greater elementals aren't good (they can deal insane amounts of damage), but sometimes because of confined spaces, or the chance of the elemental being quickly disabled by the enemy (nausea, paralyze, web for different elemental types), I think it would be better to take one of the enemy, who has resistances against his own types of attacks, and turncoat him.

But if I get the chance to cast both I will.

[justindavis]

I think the rules to this don't make sense, but that is how most things are. I can get a nice greater elemental from various realms with a guy that has no throwing skills. In the same battle at the same time, I can not cast the summon elemental spell. Whatever - Like you mentioned - they are fairly open to being paralized, nauseous, etc.

When I am fighting 40 rapax or at the temple in the SE wilderness, I like to use them. They distract and jam the opposing summoned kids in the SEW temple, and they do a good gob beating up rapax if you can keep them away from enemy magic.

[petertmorgan]

Elementals seem to be better than turncoat/insanity against creatures with high damage resistance. I find that high damage resistance creatures don't do much damage against each other, whereas an elemental will. However, as noted, elementals become much less effective when the level of the elemental is more than seven or eight levels less than the opponents (can't hit, get conditioned, are hit easily). I've even have elementals ignored by high level opponents, so you don't even get the distraction/meat shield bonus sometimes. Toward end-game, I find that canned elementals won't do much, and only spell power 6 or 7 elementals (I forget, greater and lord?) have occasionally been helpful.