Planning ahead!

[ChaosTheorist]

....Perhaps this then is why you consider the first part of the game to be so difficult?

Sorry, wasn't me. In fact, I almost posted in the "Getting to Arnika" thread along the lines of "Why do so many players feel that getting to Arnika is so difficult? I rarely have problems, and I basically always level up to at least 5--sometimes as high as 7--before leaving the Monastery."

Hybrids can be quite interesting without magic at all, i.e. insta-kill is a fascination all its own. The strictures of weapons types, armor, ect. are also quite fascinating.

I agree. In fact, I think I've mentioned that one of the parties I've run was a specifically-designed Ranged/CritHit party: Monk, Samurai, throwing Ninja, Ranger, Gadgeteer, and Bishop. On that one I built the hybrids as straight melee- or ranged-combat specialists, and their magic was very much an afterthought. But I reject absolutely the position that that is the *only* way hybrids can/must be built.

[ 07-05-2003, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: ChaosTheorist ]

[ScottG]

sure, it most certainly isn't the only way that they can be developed - I'd totally agree with that. For me though the quest is for the optimal way (at least in most situations - no such thing as an absolute there either).

Sorry about the confusion on the other - I thought that you were the one suggesting that Greggor was one of the most difficult battles in the game.

[ 07-05-2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: ScottG ]

[Ziggurat]

Gregor can be difficult, but there is not alot of strategy involved if you are lev 1 or 2. You hope for the best luck, reload if necessary, or level up to where you can handle him (it?). He's notable for being the first more difficult battle, especially if you don't lev past 2 or 3. Any battle can be very difficult if the enemy is in sufficient numbers, is higher than you by enough levels (up to mid-game), and/or catches you in a vulnerable condition.

For example, Souleater was hard for me at first game until I developed a strategy. Now I get him in the first round or two. Nessie can be difficult but I just wait til I'm a little more experienced. Some have succeeded in wiping out the Umpani from the top down in Mt. Gigas. I bet that would be hard. There can be many hard battles in this game, or you can play it safe and work on your magic and combat skills in safer zones first. It's a matter of preference, which is a good thing about this game. It doesn't force the steepness of your learning curve. I try for a middle ground, to see what I can get away with but back off if it becomes too frustrating.

A caveat: if your starting party is inherently weak, or is not developed properly, or you wander into tough areas too early, you are guaranteed some hard battles.

[ 07-05-2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ]

[ChaosTheorist]

sure, it most certainly isn't the only way that they can be developed - I'd totally agree with that. For me though the quest is for the optimal way (at least in most situations - no such thing as an absolute there either).

Sorry, I guess I mis-read "First look at what their primary use will be: ALWAYS physical combat"; it sounded pretty absolute to me. I apologize for missing the subtle distinction between that statement and one like "First look at what their primary use will be: ALWAYS ALWAYS physical combat", which I guess would be "really absolute"

[ChaosTheorist]

I think that the unfortunate point in all of this is that the game is unbalanced. Fighters get powerful too quickly. Hybrids get powerful too late. You can divide the party among classes, but then some characters are pulling serious weight early while others are experience leeches.

Yeah. One of my current solutions to that is my "Hybrid Honeys" party: one each of the 6 hybrid classes, no RPCs. That way they all level up together, and gain skills at about the same rate. Since I chose (as usual--but not always--with my hybrids) to push INT first, none of them have become powerhouse physical-combat types yet either, so they are more interesting than pure-physical hybrids, but also require more diligent care and feeding to make sure they grow up right--or grow up at all!

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

I think I didn't explain myself well in my last post. What I meant by "it doesn't matter how you get it done" is that you have the freedom to do it any way you want! Like my Valkerie party for example. I thought they would be much better hitters than they were and I took them all the way to lvl 19 only to find they didn't hit very well and their spells were not that good either. So, what'a ya' do, you make up a brand new party!
I still stand by the kicking butt part though; whether it's high damage from fighters, critical strikes or those great insta' kill spells, it's all fun!

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

I *know* I can walk through the game with the melee-heavy party mentioned earlier, and I *know* exactly how every step of the way will play out. I'm *pretty sure* I can make it to Ascension with an all-magic party, and I *think* I have a handle on how to do it; which one sounds more interesting to you?

(How do you guys quote these replies?) It can't be just cut and past right?

Anyway, I've tried the melee heavy parties and in a lot of ways they are very good; but, you run into enemies like Rynjin that mess with your mind and you're in big trouble (so I've found)!
So now I have all pure casters which I will switch at some point to Lords, Samurai and Ninja. This may not even work later in the game but who cares; I'll just start over and try something else. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't much care for getting finished anyway.

[EEWorzelle]

We begin the game and play to the end, but how much time is spent at the beginning or end of the game?

Farseer, there is nothing wrong with a love of Melee. Given todays selections of games, it is a fortunate preferrence to have. I envy you the availability of that which you love. Also, I took no offense at your playful Batman jibe. If you really want to insult me you need to be very clear about it, or I just won't take offense. I assume you were just going... "whew," and being playful.

Actually, there is an apporopriate balance to posting, just as there is to any character development and playing the game itself. My posts do tend to be long, but I can be more discriminate as to when and how much.

Ziggurat: "EEW, your posts are always welcome..."

Thank you my friend!

There are lots of reasons to try numerous ways to approach the game. I play Magic-Heavy partys (Balanced ones!) because, in addition to liking them and in spite of the time it takes to set up spells each round, they are also the quickest, easiest, and, IMO, most fun way to win the game, even on Expert Mode!

[ 07-08-2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

[ChaosTheorist]

(How do you guys quote these replies?) It can't be just cut and past right?

I just use the little "Quote" button

Anyway, I've tried the melee heavy parties and in a lot of ways they are very good; but, you run into enemies like Rynjin that mess with your mind and you're in big trouble (so I've found)!

That's a definite downside of a party with a lot of really good crit-hitters: having multiple members insane/turncoat and crit-hitting their former friends.

So now I have all pure casters which I will switch at some point to Lords, Samurai and Ninja. This may not even work later in the game but who cares; I'll just start over and try something else. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't much care for getting finished anyway.

I think you'll find that later on there's little reason to change them. My (limited) experience with all-magic parties is that they get easier as time goes on and they pick up more HP and SP, plus the protection spells; they're much more difficult during the low-single-digit levels when they don't have enough SP/skill to do a lot of damage, are at best marginally competent in their melee & ranged skills, don't have enough HP to absorb much damage, and are wearing the crappy-or-worse armor to which most specialist casters are limited.

WRT finishing: yeah, I start 4-5 parties for every one I actually get to Ascension.