Bishops to Start or Dual Class Later?

vorpal2k2 · 07-21-2002, 03:25 PM

Newbie Question I guess but with a 60 hr work week I dont really have the time to play this game through 6 times. Wish i Did [img]smile.gif[/img]

So is it better to start with 2 bishops or a mage and a priest and then dual class them later. Im going with a 6 player party. I've read most of the topics and it seems like dual classing to bishop should be around lvl 8 or 9 or so....correct me on that if im wrong please.

Thx for the help.

Megabot · 07-21-2002, 05:15 PM

I personaly newer change the class of my characters i think they are best singel class trough the game. My last party have Fighter, Samurai, Priest, Fairy Ninja, Mage and Alcemist and they was darn great trough the whole game [img]smile.gif[/img] And Welcome to Ironworks Forums vorpal2k2!!

vorpal2k2 · 07-21-2002, 06:05 PM

Thanks for the reply.

No bishops at all in your party. I just killed my lvl 3 bishop with a backfired energy blast cast at lvl 5 woops other than that the game is easy so far, playing on the hardest difficulty.

Went with: samurai fighter lord bishop mage and bard.

Megabot · 07-22-2002, 03:34 AM

Ohh only wait the game will be HARD later on i tell you, so be sure that you have good party before you going to far in to the game because it is a little annoying to start all over again if you dont like your characters! Yeah a Bard is wery good to it is plenty of cool instruments in the game.

[ 07-22-2002, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: Megabot ]

Oruboris · 07-22-2002, 04:15 AM

Yep, bishops can be a little delicate at the beginning, but I'm running a party of 4 with 2, and I love 'em: In one of the great final battles of the game, the 2 bishops took out about 25 of 30 enemies in a single round. Makes combat much quicker.

Should mention its very important to be careful casting spells: even a 'yellow' cast could kill some party members or allies if the damage of the spell exceeds their hit points. As magic users progress, they get much tougher, just takes a little while to get onto how the game works.

Oru

Rhea · 07-22-2002, 10:13 AM

If you're not going to play the game a bunch of times, I'd start out with the mage and priest and dual them at Level 8. Just make sure your characters meet the minimum stats for bishop (this usually means putting points into Int for the Priest and into Pie for the Mage). There's nothing worse than getting to the level where you planned to dual them to bishops and then realizing you're 5 points short in a stat.

It's nice to have the bishops because they have access to more spells, but early on, like the monastery and Arnika Road, the mage and priest have more spell points in their schools and can help you make it through the earliest part of the game. Usually by the time I finish the monastery I'm about ready to dual them (depends on how many fights you get into).

If you have the time to play multiple games, it's fun to start a bishop and run them all the way through, though.

Duneswalker · 07-22-2002, 04:14 PM

That is the plan I was going to go with, Rhea, I have not played the game yet, I am just choosing my party, and I am debating this. I read on one of the info sites that the spell level you can learn is dependant on level.

Spell Level Min Char. Level
1 1
2 3
3 5
4 8
5 11
6 14
7 22

So... a priest or cleric at level 8 could cast up to level 4 spells, but would then have to wait to CHARACTER LEVEL (8+11) 19 for level 5 spells, Char level 22 for level 6, and char level 30! for level 7.

I assume this is true as it was posted by the lead designer for Wiz.
Do you think this a concern, would you hamstring your bishop by moving his high level spells back so far as opposed to just building him 'pure' to start?

Rhea · 07-22-2002, 05:52 PM

LOL! You'll have to ask one of the more mathematically inclined to analyze that. I just play. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I think for a first time around, playing a mage or priest to level 8 is a really good survival tactic. Bishops start out with absolutely no poop to their spells - so if you have sleep you're lucky if a)you put one out of 5 monsters to sleep, and they don't sleep for long, baby! [img]tongue.gif[/img] and b)you don't knock out your own party.

A mage has more spell points in some crucial areas to start with.

Later on, it evens out.

If you have a bard, for instance, who can make up for your bishop's lack of zing, then it might be ok to run a pure bishop your first time through. I'd also recommend playing with a full party of six, which helps.

You don't lose the skill points you've invested in the schools when you were a mage or priest. They're still there.

A lot of people love bishops from the getgo. I'm running them now. But in my first few games, the dual classing really helped keep my party alive in the Monastery and Arnika road.

otter · 07-23-2002, 01:45 AM

Hey, now! You get L7 Spells at Caster L18, not 22!
If you let your characters practise at all, which i highly recommend if you don't want to restart, you can switch to Bishop as soon as you get to a city, mix potions and read spellbooks--you can learn all four Schools and practise them up as high as you want, or have patience for. Then, if you think levels are coming too slow, you can change to any Pure Caster for however many levels you want, back to Bishop, maybe one each of the Pures...it all adds up to your total Caster Level. Bishop levels have the advantages of mana pool increases based on all the spells, around 3X the Pure's increase; and the Caster Level goes up in all four Schools.

Oruboris · 07-23-2002, 03:35 AM

Yeah: bishops develope mind blowing mana, and unlike single school casters, have lots of attack spells in every realm: have noticed both priests and mages tend to run out of juice a LOT more often, as they don't get many attack spells in certain magic realms. If you have an amulet of nebdar or robes of rejuvenation [or both] you rarely need to rest or teleport to the trynton mana font.

Have considered running a bishop as far as ferro's, then buying him an infinity helm [+5 mana regen], and switching to a class that can wear it: should be a** kicking, though he wouldn't ever develope much in terms of fighting skills, the ability to cast level 7 spells at level 7 round after round would be pretty cool...

Finished my 4 man party with 2 bishops tonight, very gratifing.

Oru

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07-21-2002, 03:25 PM	#1
vorpal2k2 Welcomed New User Join Date: July 21, 2002 Location: canada Age: 49 Posts: 3	Newbie Question I guess but with a 60 hr work week I dont really have the time to play this game through 6 times. Wish i Did [img]smile.gif[/img] So is it better to start with 2 bishops or a mage and a priest and then dual class them later. Im going with a 6 player party. I've read most of the topics and it seems like dual classing to bishop should be around lvl 8 or 9 or so....correct me on that if im wrong please. Thx for the help.

07-21-2002, 05:15 PM	#2
Megabot Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 18, 2003 Location: Oslo, Norway. Age: 62 Posts: 3,360	I personaly newer change the class of my characters i think they are best singel class trough the game. My last party have Fighter, Samurai, Priest, Fairy Ninja, Mage and Alcemist and they was darn great trough the whole game [img]smile.gif[/img] And Welcome to Ironworks Forums vorpal2k2!!

07-21-2002, 06:05 PM	#3
vorpal2k2 Welcomed New User Join Date: July 21, 2002 Location: canada Age: 49 Posts: 3	Thanks for the reply. No bishops at all in your party. I just killed my lvl 3 bishop with a backfired energy blast cast at lvl 5 woops other than that the game is easy so far, playing on the hardest difficulty. Went with: samurai fighter lord bishop mage and bard.

07-22-2002, 03:34 AM	#4
Megabot Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 18, 2003 Location: Oslo, Norway. Age: 62 Posts: 3,360	Ohh only wait the game will be HARD later on i tell you, so be sure that you have good party before you going to far in to the game because it is a little annoying to start all over again if you dont like your characters! Yeah a Bard is wery good to it is plenty of cool instruments in the game. [ 07-22-2002, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: Megabot ]

07-22-2002, 04:15 AM	#5
Oruboris Avatar Join Date: April 5, 2002 Location: SW Montana Posts: 575	Yep, bishops can be a little delicate at the beginning, but I'm running a party of 4 with 2, and I love 'em: In one of the great final battles of the game, the 2 bishops took out about 25 of 30 enemies in a single round. Makes combat much quicker. Should mention its very important to be careful casting spells: even a 'yellow' cast could kill some party members or allies if the damage of the spell exceeds their hit points. As magic users progress, they get much tougher, just takes a little while to get onto how the game works. Oru

07-22-2002, 10:13 AM	#6
Rhea Drow Warrior Join Date: October 2, 2001 Location: California Age: 73 Posts: 266	If you're not going to play the game a bunch of times, I'd start out with the mage and priest and dual them at Level 8. Just make sure your characters meet the minimum stats for bishop (this usually means putting points into Int for the Priest and into Pie for the Mage). There's nothing worse than getting to the level where you planned to dual them to bishops and then realizing you're 5 points short in a stat. It's nice to have the bishops because they have access to more spells, but early on, like the monastery and Arnika Road, the mage and priest have more spell points in their schools and can help you make it through the earliest part of the game. Usually by the time I finish the monastery I'm about ready to dual them (depends on how many fights you get into). If you have the time to play multiple games, it's fun to start a bishop and run them all the way through, though.

07-22-2002, 04:14 PM	#7
Duneswalker Dungeon Master Join Date: April 5, 2001 Location: Dearborn Heights, Mi, USA Posts: 53	That is the plan I was going to go with, Rhea, I have not played the game yet, I am just choosing my party, and I am debating this. I read on one of the info sites that the spell level you can learn is dependant on level. Spell Level Min Char. Level 1 1 2 3 3 5 4 8 5 11 6 14 7 22 So... a priest or cleric at level 8 could cast up to level 4 spells, but would then have to wait to CHARACTER LEVEL (8+11) 19 for level 5 spells, Char level 22 for level 6, and char level 30! for level 7. I assume this is true as it was posted by the lead designer for Wiz. Do you think this a concern, would you hamstring your bishop by moving his high level spells back so far as opposed to just building him 'pure' to start?

07-22-2002, 05:52 PM	#8
Rhea Drow Warrior Join Date: October 2, 2001 Location: California Age: 73 Posts: 266	LOL! You'll have to ask one of the more mathematically inclined to analyze that. I just play. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I think for a first time around, playing a mage or priest to level 8 is a really good survival tactic. Bishops start out with absolutely no poop to their spells - so if you have sleep you're lucky if a)you put one out of 5 monsters to sleep, and they don't sleep for long, baby! [img]tongue.gif[/img] and b)you don't knock out your own party. A mage has more spell points in some crucial areas to start with. Later on, it evens out. If you have a bard, for instance, who can make up for your bishop's lack of zing, then it might be ok to run a pure bishop your first time through. I'd also recommend playing with a full party of six, which helps. You don't lose the skill points you've invested in the schools when you were a mage or priest. They're still there. A lot of people love bishops from the getgo. I'm running them now. But in my first few games, the dual classing really helped keep my party alive in the Monastery and Arnika road.

07-23-2002, 01:45 AM	#9
otter Elminster Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: portland or Posts: 434	Hey, now! You get L7 Spells at Caster L18, not 22! If you let your characters practise at all, which i highly recommend if you don't want to restart, you can switch to Bishop as soon as you get to a city, mix potions and read spellbooks--you can learn all four Schools and practise them up as high as you want, or have patience for. Then, if you think levels are coming too slow, you can change to any Pure Caster for however many levels you want, back to Bishop, maybe one each of the Pures...it all adds up to your total Caster Level. Bishop levels have the advantages of mana pool increases based on all the spells, around 3X the Pure's increase; and the Caster Level goes up in all four Schools.

07-23-2002, 03:35 AM	#10
Oruboris Avatar Join Date: April 5, 2002 Location: SW Montana Posts: 575	Yeah: bishops develope mind blowing mana, and unlike single school casters, have lots of attack spells in every realm: have noticed both priests and mages tend to run out of juice a LOT more often, as they don't get many attack spells in certain magic realms. If you have an amulet of nebdar or robes of rejuvenation [or both] you rarely need to rest or teleport to the trynton mana font. Have considered running a bishop as far as ferro's, then buying him an infinity helm [+5 mana regen], and switching to a class that can wear it: should be a** kicking, though he wouldn't ever develope much in terms of fighting skills, the ability to cast level 7 spells at level 7 round after round would be pretty cool... Finished my 4 man party with 2 bishops tonight, very gratifing. Oru

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