Which is better: Ranger or Ninja?

[Nix]

Yeah, that dumb Ferro [img]smile.gif[/img] Had a heck of a time protecting that suicidal smith's hide too, he kept charging his comrades even though he was "puny" against gangs of "strong" or "powerful". Actually grew fond of him and couldn't bear to let him die after that display of loyalty. Besides, he sells the best stuff in the game, so always kept a portal near him.

[Mage_77]

Silverthornne:


Fang is betetr than Bloodlust IMO & its guaranteed to be there every time.


Ice3:


Cane of Corpus is dropped by the Don not in any retro dungeon.
He will have most of the times you kill him. A test of 30kills on him i got it 26times, so, its pretty common. Just save before you kill him incase it doesnt drop and just re-load and kill him again.

As for the original question. You cant compare them really. Ranger comes under the class of ranged fighter like a gadeteer would. Ninja comes under close combat fighters.
For the comparison on monks Vs. Ninja's monsk "will" do better with martial arts over a ninja but given the right weapons they can be as good/better than a monk.

The ninja gets thrown crits & auto penetrate.
The ranger gets ranged crits & auto search.

If you hate running around using the search button then take the ranger. If you would rather a close combat fighter that can throw for crit's on occasion (should note that ninja's can also crit in close combat where a ranger cant) you should stick with the ninja. A Fairie Ninja is usually the best choice as the Cane of Corpus is one of the few weapons in game that actually stands out in dmg (not to forget the fact that CoC has the effects of 100%poison, 50% paralyze, 15%kill).
"forget if kill is 15% but pretty sure thats about right)/ Outside the status effects on the CoC the Kill% just means doing crit kills more often and really nice dmg (best so far was 3swings in 1 turn for 386) at level 19.

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Mage_77 ]

[ice3]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mage_77:
Cane of Corpus is dropped by the Don not in any retro dungeon.
He will have most of the times you kill him. A test of 30kills on him i got it 26times, so, its pretty common. Just save before you kill him incase it doesnt drop and just re-load and kill him again.

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OK that's possible, because I kicked Don and did the rerto dungeon at aprox the same time and didn't look close to the stuff until I was back to sell it. But the CoC is of no use since I have a hobbit ninja. I will probably make a Feari ninja next game.

Up to now I use no weapon for my ninja it's maybe a mistake but I don't use her for damage but for criticals. I have a samurai to reduce the hit points and a monk-ninja to critical. But I must say my monk does an insane amount of criticals all the time even if my ninja has better skills.

[Warhammer]

Advantages of the Ranger

* Ranged crits *without* developing an extra skill (Critical strike)

* A (Mook) Ranger can use the Great Sword and the Eagle-Eye bow.

* Ranger armor is better than Ninja armor by a landslide. Ranger can wear medium weight armor (Divinemail,...), the best helm in the game,... whereas the Ninja is stuck with the armor/helm/trousers they are born with for almost the whole game

* The Rangers levels up faster.

* Scouting is extremely usefull.

* Bow range is higher than thrown range

Advantages of the Ninja

* Critical strike with Thrown weapons *and* close combat

* The Stealth skill

* The thieving skills

* Can practice Martial arts and a weapon skill simultaneously (Main hand empty, off hand Nunchaku, Ninjato or whatever)

* Can use the CoC, if Faery.

Personal Opinion

The choice Ranger vs Ninja really depends on party setup and personal taste.
I for one, do not need the Ninja close combat criticals since I already have Fighter-Samurai-Lord as tanks (the others being Ran-bis-bis), I do not need the Ninja lockpicking skill since 4 of my characters have Knock-Knock and I do not need the Pickpocketing since I hate the save-reload drill associated with it.

[Warhammer]

Sorry for the back to back posting!

A good thing about a Ranger is that he can't be messed up: 2 attributes to put points in (SEN, DEX) and 3 non-special skills (Ranged, Bow and Alchemy)

Whereas a Ninja has a wagonload of important skills Thrown, Ranged Combat, Critical Strike, Martial Arts, Close Combat, Stealth, the thieving skills and Alchemy, obviously you will have to make a lot of painfull choices when you try to pick which skill to work on.
I left out the special skills.

[Mage_77]

Aye Warhammer, it really does depend on what you've got setup in group.

My most favorite party though usually consists of:

Samurai - Ninja - Ranger - Gadgeteer - Bishop x2


Sometimes Gadgeteer or Ranger gets swapped out for a bard depending onmy mood when i start a game although recently ive been playing with just

Samurai - Ninja - Bishop
or
Ninja - Bard - Bishop

Mostly its not how your groups made but more how much you enjoy the group you've created. From personal opinion also is that there is no "right" combination & no "better" chars than others. All have thier own benefits & drawbacks its just how you exploit thier benefits & cover up thier drawbacks that makes the difference.

If i had a choice in a game between ninja or ranger i'd be hard pressed to choose on most occasions.

[Warhammer]

Mage_77

There's another thing to take into account when making a party: Do you intend to go through the game straitly and finish the game by level 20-22, or do you enjoy wandering around fighting and building up your characters until you reach level 29-30.

First case you should go with fighters, bards, rogues, one-spellbook spellcasters. Second case should rather go with hybrids and bishops, since the first category tops off around levels 18-22.

[Mage_77]

"Do you intend to go through the game straitly and finish the game by level 20-22, or do you enjoy wandering around fighting and building up your characters until you reach level 29-30.
First case you should go with fighters, bards, rogues, one-spellbook spellcasters. Second case should rather go with hybrids and bishops, since the first category tops off around levels 18-22."


Actually ive finished with hybrids & bishops at around level 20-24ish with the bishops & hybrids all 90+ in realms with 75+ in thier main realms (wizardry,divinity,alchemy,psionic). Knowing how to work up alot of your realms really makes magic a non worrying matter on level-skill with hybrids & bishops.

With a less than full group i do finish at closer to 32-35 but thats due to more exp to each character cause exp is spread through how many group members & npc's you have so the less number of characters the better the exp spread throught the group.

Fighters just arent necesarry at anytime or level as most of the melee hybrids i use (ninja, samurai, monk) can keep thier ac almost as high as a fighter & other pure combat classes due to the stealth skill which is very easily maxxed out since i only play on expert mode. A pure fighter has more hp's and gains thier stats alot quicker but that really makes little difference towards the end game. (Run through Rapax Castle & Ascension Peak and count how many "melee" mobs you run into Vs. "nuking" mobs you run into. Its on average of 75% of the mobs actually nuke Vs. 25% that melee's. With 2 bishops & a couple of hybrids with well developed magic nukes mean nothing to you.
(2 bishops can cast Heal All, Elem. Shield, Soul Shield, any other buff you can think of) not to mention the range of instant death spells you can toss around & a samurai with lightsword or Marasume & F-ninja with CoC usually has mobs dying in 1-2rounds and this is factly speaking since samurai & ninja with the respective weapons just mentioned have a high inate ability to Crit-Strike then adding the Kill% on the weapons makes the Kill% factor extremely high.


Despite all these factors ive mentioned and the fact i have gone through only major points to finish ASAP, I do prefer to spend my time wanering around enjoying the game over rushing through it just to finish it.


Why bother playing if your not playing to enjoy yourself?


Most occasions that i play i usually do every quest i can then to add a twist i would go back and wipe out the trynnie's,trang & umpani for the fun/challenge of it.

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Mage_77 ]

[MaskedFrog]

I completed the game with both a Ranger and a Ninja in the party. In all to other wizardy games I really liked the ninja. I know they start slow and get better towards the end game but even when I finished I at level 24ish, I was not impressed with the ninja. I had max Senses and Speed both requisites for Critical Strike. However my Samurai with pitful senses and Fang did more criticals than the ninja. The Ranger by far was my critical strike machine. If I had to choose between the two classes I would pick Ranger any day.

[Nixlplix]

I've only played with a Ninja to level 11, but I've been through half the game twice and finished once with a Ranger in my party. I had the Ninja using a sling to build her ranged combat because I felt throwing items were rather scarce compared to arrows and bullets, so I'm not sure how good they are with ranged crits. She never seemed to get crits in hand-to-hand, though. Maybe I just didn't give her a fighting chance? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

All my Rangers, however, especially the Mook, got ranged crits consisently, practically every battle. I've thought of having two since they are so good (Mook have an nice sword they can use for melee..) but it seems like it'd make it too easy