Troy! (will contain spoilers)

[Luvian]

I just saw it. To me it was average. It was done well enough, but I think all this talk of rape and slavery ruined the mood for me.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Luvian: I think all this talk of rape and slavery ruined the mood for me.

Do you mean in the movie? Or in this thread?

[Luvian]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Luvian: I think all this talk of rape and slavery ruined the mood for me.

Do you mean in the movie? Or in this thread? </font>[/QUOTE]In the movie.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Luvian: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by The Hierophant: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Luvian: I think all this talk of rape and slavery ruined the mood for me.

Do you mean in the movie? Or in this thread? </font>[/QUOTE]In the movie. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, it's not for everyone... [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Link]

Originally posted by Faceman: I liked the personalities the characters were given and really enjoyed the movie up until Paris became Legolas (which IMO was just out-of-character) and they were going for a Hollywood showdown.

While I haven't seen just yet, I can understand what they did to Paris, although it's totally not how Paris was. Paris was more or less a coward: the real hero of Troy was Hector. No one could match him in man-to-man combat save for Achilles. The fact that Paris kills Achilles using a poisonous (NOTE: I never read that it was poisonous, but it at least sounds more plausible) arrow from a safe position says all about his cowardly nature. Paris would have never joined the fighting; he would've stayed safe with his prize Helena.

IIRC it was even so that Helena, who was watching the fighting from the walls, had to run back to the palace to convince Paris into fighting for his city. Talk about manly courage, eh?

Originally posted by Faceman: Though I first felt that the end had ruined the movie for me looking back I think it wasn't so bad. And for the return of epic movies it certainly outdid the horrid Gladiator.

Gladiator wasn't that bad. It had lots of entertainment value with the pit fighting and in the Colosseum and all, and I think Joaquin Phoenix did a good job portraying Commodus the crazy emperor. So the movie was a little historically incorrect, I don't really mind about that [img]smile.gif[/img]

NOTE: About Aeneas: although you mention he is one of the major characters coming from Troy, I beg to differ about that. Aeneas was a creation of Vergil, who had nothing to do with the writings of Homer. Bear in mind that the only reason Vergil wrote the Aeneas was that he wanted the Romans to have something of an epic tale themselves. Although the two stories (the Iliad and the Aeneas) come together in Troy, they are two seperately made stories and really shouldn't belong there IMHO.

[ 05-17-2004, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: Link ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Link: Bear in mind that the only reason Vergil wrote the Aeneas was that he wanted the Romans to have something of an epic tale themselves.

And kiss Augustus' ass

[uss]

Huh? The movie was *that* different from the true story? Man, Hierophant, no wonder you dislike the movie so much. [img]smile.gif[/img]

All this talk about the old Iliad makes me want to read it. But I don't know anything about it - Is it available in one book?

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by uss: All this talk about the old Iliad makes me want to read it. But I don't know anything about it - Is it available in one book?

Sure is. It's fully translated into many different languages.

A word of caution though: the Iliad is designed to be recited aloud by a bard, it was not designed to be 'read' as a piece of literature. Thus, there is alot of repitition of phrases and paragraphs in order to give the bard enough time to organise his thoughts to think about which verse comes next (it's a huge poem, my hat goes off to all of the ancient bards that were able to recite it by heart) [img]smile.gif[/img] So, it doesn't read the way a modern storybook does. It is a poetic epic, an elaborate song, not a novel. But it's still a great story, and gives you a glimpse into a world and culture very different from our own, but one that we nevertheless can claim descent from.

[ 05-17-2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Lady Blue03]

<font color=pink>Mmm that reminds me of the one written by the blind guy...Paradise Lost. 12 books written in the same style [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Link: NOTE: About Aeneas: although you mention he is one of the major characters coming from Troy, I beg to differ about that. Aeneas was a creation of Vergil, who had nothing to do with the writings of Homer. Bear in mind that the only reason Vergil wrote the Aeneas was that he wanted the Romans to have something of an epic tale themselves. Although the two stories (the Iliad and the Aeneas) come together in Troy, they are two seperately made stories and really shouldn't belong there IMHO.

Dead Wrong!

Aineias shows up on several occasions in the Iliad always mentioning him as the hero "second only to Hector among the Trojans" he even gets in a battle with Achill which is about to turn out lethal for both of them before Poseidon steps in and saves Aineias.
Many historians believe that Homer was somehow connected to the family of Aineias because several times he mentions that Aineias will become the ruler of new Troy (i.e. rebuilt after the war). This is why Aineias became the founding hero of many a city in their myths because thus they could claim to be the new Troy. The Aeneias cult finally expanded westwards and arrived at Rome where Aeneas was believed to be the founding hero (like a son of Odysseus was) long before the story of Romulus and Remus was thought up. Later they harmonised the myths and Aeneias thus became the ancestor of the Roman twins.
In Vergils Aeneis only the chapter about Dido (in Carthago) is made up by himself. Everything else is part of the great number of myths that existed about Aeneias at that time.
My sidenote:
Aineias is a loser and a mama's boy. There is not one fight in the Iliad he actually does win (although his bravery is always stressed) and in Vergils Aeneis he leaves both of his true loves (his wife Creusa and later Dido) because Aphrodite/Venus tells him to