The Passion

[Kakero]

Originally posted by Yorick: Should a Muslim be banned forom making a film

Muslim are not banned from making such films, However they are forbidden from showing the prophet ( be it mohammed or jesus ) or any prophet whatsoever as a person. ie, we cannot see the prophet. So I reckon this film will be banned from Malaysia and several other countries.

[The Hierophant]

[quote]Originally posted by Kakero:

Originally posted by Yorick: However they are forbidden from showing the prophet ( be it mohammed or jesus ) or any prophet whatsoever as a person.

*smugly chuckles to himself*

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: ]With all due respect...your sins perhaps because you believe it, but not mine. I do not believe Jesus was the son of God or the savior, therefore Jesus did not die for the atonement of my sins, not even a little. This is one reason why I would find zero upliftment from a movie that graphically depicts his tortue and execution. Like I already mentioned, I prefer more benign uplifting imagery in my spiritual path. Jesus with a halo is okay, but being tortured and hanging bloody from the cross...no thanks.

I want to see this merely to view a modern interpretation of one of the greatest politicial blunders of civilisation. Why oh why oh why did the otherwise-politically-savvy Emperor Augustus allow the martyrdom of that Jesus fellow? It's such a shame. If Jesus wasn't put to death then it is highly doubtful that Christians would have had the power to shape civilisation that they have had over the past 1700 years... we'd probably still be living in a polytheistic utopia... oh how the early imperial government frustrates me...

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: I want to see this merely to view a modern interpretation of one of the greatest politicial blunders of civilisation. Why oh why oh why did the otherwise-politically-savvy Emperor Augustus allow the martyrdom of that Jesus fellow? It's such a shame. If Jesus wasn't put to death then it is highly doubtful that Christians would have had the power to shape civilisation that they have had over the past 1700 years... we'd probably still be living in a polytheistic utopia... oh how the early imperial government frustrates me...

<font color=deepskyblue>He had no choice or control in the matter. It was pre-ordained and HAD to happen. Emporer Augustus couldn't have prevented it anymore than he could reverse the flow of a river. </font>

[Spelca]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I will wait for the DVD and watch the movie then. Until then I guess I really have no place or grounds to further comment.

Yea, I'll wait for the DVD too. Or maybe even until it comes on tv. It's just too expensive to go to the cinema and see a film that I probably won't like. Well, I've read some reviews, and a lot of them are positive, but then, lots of the people that wrote them are also believers (which I am not). And those that aren't, many wrote that the film was just full of blood and a bit disappointing.
It will still be interesting to see it once it comes out on DVD though. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit - What I wanted to say with the "believers" part was that the film inspired them, and that I, as an atheist, probably won't get inspired. Which is the point of this film, right? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 03-06-2004, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Spelca ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: <font color=deepskyblue>He had no choice or control in the matter. It was pre-ordained and HAD to happen. Emporer Augustus couldn't have prevented it anymore than he could reverse the flow of a river. </font>

heh heh. I guess it's on the 'son of god' vs. 'just another passive resistance cult leader' issue that our beliefs differ

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Spelca: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chewbacca: I will wait for the DVD and watch the movie then. Until then I guess I really have no place or grounds to further comment.

Yea, I'll wait for the DVD too. Or maybe even until it comes on tv. It's just too expensive to go to the cinema and see a film that I probably won't like. Well, I've read some reviews, and a lot of them are positive, but then, lots of the people that wrote them are also believers (which I am not). And those that aren't, many wrote that the film was just full of blood and a bit disappointing.
It will still be interesting to see it once it comes out on DVD though. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit - What I wanted to say with the "believers" part was that the film inspired them, and that I, as an atheist, probably won't get inspired. Which is the point of this film, right? [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]<font color=deepskyblue>I agree with your sentiments, <font color=orange>Spelca</font>. For those who don't believe in God or that Jesus Christ was His Son, the torture Jesus endures will seem pretty senseless. The review from the N.Y. Times earlier in this thread pointed that out quite clearly. The critic said commented on the violence of the film but lamented that the purpose for the violence is never fully explained. That's because the "purpose" is well-known and perfectly clear to those who believe so no explanation is needed.

As the saying goes "If you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand the answer anyway".

Still, <font color=yellow>Yorick</font> also pointed out that is a great example of countering extreme hatred and violence with benign passivity. Since some "paths" besides Christianity promote this same concept, it is possible that followers of that ideology will view the film as a good example of thier chosen path as well.

<font color=white>Heirophant</font> - you are exaclty right. That would be where our "beliefs" differ. </font>

[Darkman]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: <font color=deepskyblue>He had no choice or control in the matter. It was pre-ordained and HAD to happen. Emporer Augustus couldn't have prevented it anymore than he could reverse the flow of a river. </font>

Is that so? You say Augustus had no choice in the matter? Doesn't that dismiss him from any responsibility since he had no control over his actions? I suspose the soldiers who beat Jesus down were preordained as well so they can't really be held responsible either - that burden lies on God who set up this whole scheme of events from the start. Crusifying Jesus was such a big sacrifice too. I am really moved to tears that an all powerful being sacrificed himself to himself to save his creations from his own ineptitude at creation. That's a touching story.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Darkman: Is that so? You say Augustus had no choice in the matter? Doesn't that dismiss him from any responsibility since he had no control over his actions? I suspose the soldiers who beat Jesus down were preordained as well so they can't really be held responsible either - that burden lies on God who set up this whole scheme of events from the start. Crusifying Jesus was such a big sacrifice too. I am really moved to tears that an all powerful being sacrificed himself to himself to save his creations from his own ineptitude at creation. That's a touching story.

I think Cerek is saying that he believes Jesus had no choice in the matter. That he was created by God to serve as an example of mercy and forgiveness for humanity, and to 'suffer for our sins'.
I don't believe in that, but I think that was what Cerek was trying to say, no doubt he'll clarify things when he posts next.
And yes, predestiny does have some strange inconsistencies. Luckily for you, you don't have to believe in it.

[Timber Loftis]

Darkman, that's more than a tad bit insulting to the religion.

Cerek, I agree with the NYT article. I mean, *I* know the story, but it would take only minor tweaking to make the story -- a universal one to religions sanctifying martyrdom -- more accessible to other religions. Universal truths are, after all, universal truths (supposedly). Again, I reiterate that I have not seen the movie -- it may be expertly done for all I know.

Now, as to predestiny and preordained things, I am a bit rusty on my bible, being 15 years or more out of the loop, but I don't think Jesus *knew* of his fate ahead of time. Willing to face it, yes, but aware of it ahead of time? Father, why have you foresaken me??? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]