RE: A Relook At The Backstab Damage Formula & The Real Most Damaging Physical Strike

[Dundee Slaytern]

I recently scored a Critical Backstab of 336dmg. Cool, I thought at first; then it occured to me. Wait a minute, that should not be possible. Or is it?

After some testing( which involved the repeated backstabbing of dear beloved Minsc), I came to realise something. Jim was wrong on one detail. You do not gain a +4dmg bonus from unarmed targets. It is actually +5dmg.

Furthermore, and this is what I wanted to share, you also gain this +5dmg bonus from targets that are holding ranged weapons. That 336dmg backstab I did? It was on an archer, using the Celestial Fury +5.

Finally, Jim, Alson, and I were WRONG on what was the most damaging backstabbable weapon in the game. SOOOO wrong. It ain't a 2-Handed weapon even, which means we can exploit Equaliser's damage bonuses from the off-hand.

Good news for those who love using backstabbing Thieves like me. Now you know which targets are more likely to be gibbed by your Thief. [img]smile.gif[/img]

How do you calculate your backstab damage anyway, you ask? The formula is as follows.

[(Weapon Damage + Bonus Damage) * Backstab Modifier] + STR Damage Bonuses = Backstab Damage

In the 336dmg example,

Assassin Bonus: +1
Gauntlet Bonus: +2
Weapon Damage: 1d10 + 5
Unarmed/Non-Melee_Equipped Bonus Damage: +5

19 STR: +7dmg

Therefore,

[(1 + 2 + 10 + 5 + 5) * 7] + 7 = 168

x2 on a Critical Hit, and viola! We get 336dmg. [img]smile.gif[/img]

The greater implication of course, is that we need to redefine the 'Most Damaging Legitimate Single Physical Strike'.

Hmm... using ONLY the default game + patch + fixpack( NO GM mod).

EDIT] Calculations redone. See below for more details.

Dualclassed Assassin->Fighter(24->27): ---- ---- Assassin Bonus: +1 BBoDisaster: +29 GoESpecialisation: +2 TTransformation: +2 Unarmed Bonus: +5 Grandmastery: +3 Max Total = 42 25 STR: +14 Equalizer: +6 Max Backstab Damage = [(42 * 7) + (14 + 6)] * 2 = 628dmg Not as impressive as before, but it still beats the previous record. [img]smile.gif[/img] Kensai->Thief(24->28): ---- ---- Kensai Bonus: +8 BBoDisaster: +29 GoESpecialisation: +2 TTransformation: +2 Unarmed Bonus: +5 Grandmastery: +3 Max Total = 49 25 STR: +14 Equalizer: +6 Max Backstab Damage = [(49 * 5) + (14 + 6)] * 2 = 530dmg Cheers.

[ 06-13-2006, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[SixOfSpades]

WTF?

2D12+5?! Must be a mod item, and therefore doesn't really count. Makes me wonder why you seem to think it would be more legitimate than the Grandmastery Patch.

Also:

Weapon: 2d12+5 GoES: +2 Unarmed: +5 Tenser's: +2 Equaliser Bonus: +6 Max Total = 47 25 STR: +14

Care to explain how any character (who is not a Cleric under Ashes of Embers, or exploited the hell out of all the STR boosts in the game) can have the Equalizer in one hand, this amazing Sword of Cutchamuch in the other, and still have 25 STR?

[ZFR]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: WTF? 2D12+5?! Must be a mod item

or a black item . Don't use 'must' in bold and italics unless you're really sure.

[Lord]

Originally posted by ZFR: or a black item . Don't use 'must' in bold and italics unless you're really sure.

Huh? I still can't figure out what weapon you are talking about? 2D12 + 5 is extremely high - do you mind sharing what this weapon is?

[Demonheart]

Originally posted by Lord: quote: Originally posted by ZFR: or a black item . Don't use 'must' in bold and italics unless you're really sure.

Huh? I still can't figure out what weapon you are talking about? 2D12 + 5 is extremely high - do you mind sharing what this weapon is? [/QUOTE]Take a look through some spell descriptions [img]smile.gif[/img] . Although im not sure if it is 2d12+5, or just 2d12, never tested and the description is ambiguous to a certain extent.

[Demonheart]

Double post -.-

[ 06-13-2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Demonheart ]

[Klorox]

Originally posted by Demonheart: Take a look through some spell descriptions [img]smile.gif[/img] . Although im not sure if it is 2d12+5, or just 2d12, never tested and the description is ambiguous to a certain extent. [/QB]

What is this, a guessing game? If you know what it is, just say it.

BTW, I didn't know you could backstab with a spell. I guess you need UAI if this is possible.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Haha! Clever, clever! At this point, yes, it's a guessing game. All the hints you need are in the thread. Pay particular attention to ZFR's and Demonheart's posts, and recall what we're doing with the TOB NPC's class.

[Lord]

Originally posted by Demonheart: Take a look through some spell descriptions [img]smile.gif[/img] . Although im not sure if it is 2d12+5, or just 2d12, never tested and the description is ambiguous to a certain extent.

Ahhh, I see it now. Clever, clever.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: WTF? 2D12+5?! Must be a mod item, and therefore doesn't really count. Makes me wonder why you seem to think it would be more legitimate than the Grandmastery Patch. Also: ~ Care to explain how any character (who is not a Cleric under Ashes of Embers, or exploited the hell out of all the STR boosts in the game) can have the Equalizer in one hand, this amazing Sword of Cutchamuch in the other, and still have 25 STR?

Fie! Fie!

*waggles finger at SixOfSpades*

Again you do not give me due credit. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I ain't no run-of-the-mill doppleganger munchkin cheeser. If I say it can be done legitimately, I really do mean it can be done legitimately.

Just to rib some more, it belongs in the Long Sword category.

As for the 25 STR issue, Jim and I already solved this long ago in the previous record thread. Nobody said that these contenders were soloing. We can always... borrow items.

~~~~ ~~~~

To Demonheart,

It is 2d12+5. I went into Near Infinity to check it out, and double-checked by backstabbing Sarevok a hundred times with it. It counts as a +6 enchanted weapon. A +6 enchanted MELEE 1-Handed weapon in a non-modded game. Hey cool... I can update my 'Usable weapons on Demi-Liches' webpage.

It was funny really, how we managed to overlook this weapon. It never occured to me that it was a backstabable weapon.

[ 06-13-2006, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]