powergaming an archer: which bow?

[SixOfSpades]

Double-post, Dalamar. Light Crossbows do not have any ApR advantage over Heavy ones, they simply have a faster Speed Factor, and can be used by Thieves. They do less damage, though.

As for which weapon I personally would prefer, I'd say you can't go wrong. Gesen + Arrows of Ice, Fire, or Acid to get 2 kinds of Elemental damage with each hit, and Firetooth + Bolts of Lightning or Biting for the same effect. Gesen or Sling of Everard to hit any creature in the game at range. Sling of Everard + good Bullets for some very damaging hits. Mana Bow if you already have very high resistance to Magic Damage. Any very good Shortbow or Longbow for that added ApR, any very good Sling or Crossbow for that added damage per hit.

I'm not a big fan of thrown weapons, as you only get the THAC0/Damage bonuses from one item, rather than two (launcher + ammunition). Then again, they commonly add the user's STR damage to each hit, and one can't deny that Azuredge, Kl'glorath, and the Dwarven Thrower have some very useful properties. I HATE the Firetooth Dagger. I think it's great that it's +3 and does Fire damage with each hit, but does it really need to add an extra ApR, do double damage with each hit, and somehow factor in STR damage on a weapon that only weighs a couple of ounces? The only people I would allow to use this weapon are pure-class Wizards or Druids, since they're not likely to hit anything anyway, so the cheese factor is lower.

Darts are okay, but don't put points into them: They grant a base ApR of 3, so a single proficiency point in them will grant any Level 13 Warrior 4 ApR. I tend not to use Darts because only the really good ones (Wounding & Stunning) do much damage worth talking about. They're fine for your non-Warriors, but your Archer should be using something more meaty.

[Lord]

can someone explain to me how to make gesen fire both its phantom electrical arrows and then any other arrow that you place in your ammunition slot? If you just place the arrows in the ammunition slots, then I guess I've been doing it all along, although I haven't noticed any extra damage being delt...

[TinyMage]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: I HATE the Firetooth Dagger. I think it's great that it's +3 and does Fire damage with each hit, but does it really need to add an extra ApR, do double damage with each hit, and somehow factor in STR damage on a weapon that only weighs a couple of ounces?

Not sure what version you have, but in my version ( some non-Bio patches installed ) fire tooth dagger does exactly the damage it states, no strength bonus. It gives +1 attack per round, but without the strength bonus, so what?

This is when thrown BTW, when used as a regular dagger it has a strength bonus.

Been a while since I had a pure game, but even then I remember testing firetooth and there was no strength bonus on it.

[krunchyfrogg]

Originally posted by Lord: can someone explain to me how to make gesen fire both its phantom electrical arrows and then any other arrow that you place in your ammunition slot? If you just place the arrows in the ammunition slots, then I guess I've been doing it all along, although I haven't noticed any extra damage being delt...

You're doing it right.

[SixOfSpades]

When used without ammunition, Gesen fires arrows that strike as +4 weapons, and do 2 Piercing, plus 1D8 Electrical damage. These arrows fly through the air rather slowly, but your ApR will still remain the same.
However, when you put real arrows in your ammunition slots, the arrows travel at normal speed and lose the +4 enchantment: They now strike as whatever level of enchantment of the actual arrows. The Electrical damage from the bow still rides piggyback on the arrow, so your damage output increases from 1D8+2 to 1D8+1D6. Also, you can fire Normal arrows and thus convey spell-disrupting elemental damage to a Mage under Stoneskins and PfMW, or use Fire or Acid arrows to deliver 2 types of elemental damage at once.


Regular Daggers do 1D4 base damage (plus any extra from their enchantment). The Firetooth Dagger, however, does 2D4: Double damage, for no apparent reason. A Dagger's a Dagger, isn't it? And the extra attack per round should only be present in the Thrown version.

[SixOfSpades]

New thought: As an Archer, a very significant portion of your damage per hit is going to come from your Archer damage bonuses: A Level 15 pure Ranger with a Composite Longbow and regular Arrows will do 1D6+1 damage (average damage: 4.5). Now, if that Ranger were an Archer, the damage would be 1D6+6, with the average damage being 9.5, nearly double the Ranger's score. Therefore, you want to maximise this bonus by going for the very highest ApR possible, which means using Shortbows or Longbows.

Then again, when you consider ToB abilities, and that you only really need to kick ass in boss battles, the prospect of using Greater Whirlwind has definite appeal. In this event, you want to go for maximum damage per hit, which means Slings or Crossbows.

If you're playing a pure Archer (not a Generic Archer planning to Dual), it would therefore be advisable to start the game with Grandmastery in Shortbows or Longbows, and then branch out into Crossbow or Sling.

[ister]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: New thought: As an Archer, a very significant portion of your damage per hit is going to come from your Archer damage bonuses: A Level 15 pure Ranger with a Composite Longbow and regular Arrows will do 1D6+1 damage (average damage: 4.5). Now, if that Ranger were an Archer, the damage would be 1D6+6, with the average damage being 9.5, nearly double the Ranger's score. Therefore, you want to maximise this bonus by going for the very highest ApR possible, which means using Shortbows or Longbows.

I agree with the argument, but you've forgotten the specialization damage bonuses - +2 for 2 stars for the ranger, and +3 for 5 stars for the archer. Reinforced the argument for APR.

[Dalamar Stormcrow]

SixOfSpades opened his pie-hole to say: New thought: As an Archer, a very significant portion of your damage per hit is going to come from your Archer damage bonuses: A Level 15 pure Ranger with a Composite Longbow and regular Arrows will do 1D6+1 damage (average damage: 4.5). Now, if that Ranger were an Archer, the damage would be 1D6+6, with the average damage being 9.5, nearly double the Ranger's score.

Six, I'm dissapointed. Check your math, young man.

[ 08-02-2005, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Dalamar Stormcrow ]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by ister: ... but you've forgotten the specialization damage bonuses - +2 for 2 stars for the ranger, and +3 for 5 stars for the archer.

Oh yeah, sorry. Pretend I said Fighter instead of Ranger, that's what I meant anyway: Same base THAC0, same base ApR, same stats, same Grandmastery in Longbows.

Originally posted by Dalamar Stormcrow: Six, I'm dissapointed. Check your math, young man.

I did.

2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 27
27 / 6 = 4.5

7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12 = 57
57 / 6 = 9.5
9.5 / 2 = 4.75

[krunchyfrogg]

SixOfSpades: You're making my head spin, man.

Which missile weapon, in the hands of an unmodded Ranger-Archer with Grandmastery in it, will do the most damage per round?