Diminishing Returns on higher level characters

[Klorox]

sixofspades, i agree with you for the most part. The only time i really think dual classing is worth it is if you do it imediately. for instance, a cleric with 7 levels of berserker (for the rage/immunities) or ranger (for the druid and cleric spell lists)is a whole lot better than any kit the cleric class has. plus, you will have more hitpoints.

i know you can have a better char. if you dual class later on, but i am an impatient guy.

[Marant]

Try a wizardlsayer - diminishing returns from the word go...

[K2Grey]

A F/T is a better tank than a regular fighter, b/c he gets to use UAI and load up on stuff with physical damage resistance like Jan's armor and so on.

Wizard Slayer can theoretically be cool if you alternate between regular darts (speed factor 2, so fast as lightning) and Crimson Dart +3 (speed factor 0, booyah!) With 3 base attacks per round you can get 4 ApR right from the beginning of the game (or 5 with GM patch/fix/hack). Use Crimson Dart against your typical spellcaster, and use the regular darts against mages with PfMW to paralyze them. Against regular enemies you can try Dwarven Thrower +3 or Boomerang Dagger / Firetooth.

Against people with Improved Mantle or PfMW + are immune to normal weapons, you can use Fire Seeds + GWW [img]smile.gif[/img] I think Improved Irenicus would go down really easily with that combo. No matter what defenses he uses - PfMW, Improved Mantle, invisibility + SIiv + SI:Abj + Prot. from Fire - you can hit him and inflict spellcasting failure. In late game K'logarath + GWW does a ton of damage.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Marant: Try a wizardlsayer - diminishing returns from the word go...

Not so with ToB.

[Marant]

How so? What ToB benefits to Wizardslayers get? Hopefully it's more than a 1% magic resistance per level?

[Jerr Conner]

On F/T's and Swashbucklers, the Swashbuckler is far better, IMO. When I compared my Fighter(21)/Thief(25) to my level 36 Swashbuckler, both with similiar stats and parties, my Swashbuckler was far better. I had to reload at the end of ToB quiite a few times to finally beat the Boss with my F/T. He couldn't even solo the boss one-on-one. My Swashbuckler not only soloed the boss while the other party members were chatting, but I only needed to reload once. He showed higher return than my F/T did, they even had the ssame HLAs.

[Klorox]

I'm bumping my own thread. [img]smile.gif[/img]

It's over a year old, and I'm finally actually going to persue it's goal. I figure new input would be great.

[Neo the Warrior Cat]

Multi-classes also benefit from a bit of oversight on the part of the development team.


That is, the HLA pools for both classes are joined. This means that certain feats are cut out, and also, that you can take a FIghter HLA on a Cleric level, etc.


Used this little fact to my advantage to front-load Fighter HLAs up to Smite on my Fighter/Cleric. Getting Smite early just enhanced the deadliness that was Dual Wielding Crom Faeyr + Improved Haste + Nasty Cleric Buffs. (7 APR with ensured crits on the first round of Smite/Use of Critical Strike = devastating.)

In fact, that's how my party WASTED Draconis and Improved Abazigal. Fighter/Cleric used to be second banana in the kill ratio, now he was the undisputed king. (I had a Cleric/Mage in the back for chucking heals)


As for Dual-Classing, I had a Wizard-Slayer -> Thief. Turned out nasty powerful once he got UAI and was able to bypass the Wizard-Slayer item restrictions. (He wore the +MR items, plus dual-wielded Fflar's Foebane and the Holy Avenger Bastard Sword with GM in B Swords, with the GM patch of course) He wasn't able to absorb damage (better than a normal thief), but he was able to dish it out. Kensai probably would have been nastier but Kensai doesn't have defenses vs. magic.

[Klorox]

Originally posted by Marant: How so? What ToB benefits to Wizardslayers get? Hopefully it's more than a 1% magic resistance per level?

Wizard Slayers are pretty weak by themselves, but if you take a high level Wizard Slayer and dual class to a Thief, your character will be quite powerful.

Many people will tell you that a Kensai > Thief is the best class out there, blah blah, but I'll go with the Wizard slayer > Thief any day.

Here's the reason: Once you get the Thief High Level Ability Use Any Item, ALL Wizard Slayer drawbacks are erased. You can use any item in the game now, have a very good Magic Resistance, and just kick some major butt.

Imagine a Wizard Slayer > Thief weilding Carsomyr with Grandmastery in Greatswords. You dish out huge amounts of damage, and spells just don't hurt you. Wow.

EDIT: Neo the Warrior Cat said basically the same thing. I didn't realize this thread had a second page. [img]graemlins/stunned.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/pimpser.gif[/img]

[ 07-18-2007, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Klorox ]

[Kyrvias]

Whohoa. Holy thread necromancy, Batman!

Like the people above me, I'd take a Wizard Slayer/Thief over a Kensai/thief any day.

Magic resisting items + Wizard Slayer innate resistance = Both final fights being a breeze