Diminishing Returns on higher level characters

[Dace De'Briago]

Any chance you could make a Cleric/Ranger multiclass and check how the 5HP Con bonus splits upto level 9 and then after that level with the fixed 3/1HP advances (slowly increase the experience and try one class at a time, go through a few levels to try and get a firm answer).

I don't have a computer with BG installed at the moment to test it out on

[krunchyfrogg]

I can tell you that it should work that you'd get 3 bonus HP from the 19 CON on the Ranger level-up, and 2 bonus HP on the Cleric level-up.

Originally posted by Dace De'Briago: Short term pain for long term gain.

Reaching level 23 as a Cleric (as noted by you above) will take a really long time (almost the whole game) to reactivate those Ranger levels. And since you still haven't shown any good reason to choose the dual-class over the multi-class, I'll hold onto those ** in any weapon, and free ** in two-weapon fighting from the start. Additionally, I like the idea of continually being able to choose those Greater Whirlwind High Level Abilities. The only Cleric HLA that is any good is that Summon Deva one.

[Dace De'Briago]

Go on, test it for me.

Also, I almost always solo BG now, so levelling up is not a problem.

[Rataxes]

I'll concede that dualclassed R/C's are better than multiclassed ones if dualled at the highest possible level (22/24 at the ToB XP cap), due to more HP and in my opinion a better split of HLA's. (R/C 5/4)

However, doing so you'll spend half the game playing a singleclassed cleric and ranger, not an R/C. It's not my cup of tea, but then I'm no powergamer either. Also, a dualclassed C/M, even dualled at the highest possible level, wont get any Cleric HLAs. That may not be a huge flaw, but in my opinion, part of the coolness of C/M's is combining cleric HLAs with CC.

[ 03-15-2005, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Klutz]

High-level dual-classes generally produce the most powerful characters for the, say, 7.5M - 8.0M XP range (and hence the most powerful end-of-game character), but I prefer limiting my dual-classes to be able to be fully functional in both classes for over half of the 89K - 8.0M range. That precludes getting two sets of HLA's (since HLA's for all classes begin at 3.0M XP), but I can live with that.

Planning such a high-level dual-class certainly does eliminate the "diminishing returns on high-level characters" problem, though... when you do regain your 20+ level 1st character, the jump in power at that point is pretty obscene.

Dual-classes definitely get incredible advantages over multiclasses in the proficiency realm.

[Dace De'Briago]

As far as multiclass goes, the one multiclass with the best potential in the game is wasted.

It breaks my heart that the Fighter/Thief/Mage can only cast L8 mage spells - I'm satisfied that the Fighter and Thief aspects are adequate, its just a let-down with the Mage part of things.

[Marty4]

Originally posted by Dace De'Briago: As far as multiclass goes, the one multiclass with the best potential in the game is wasted. It breaks my heart that the Fighter/Thief/Mage can only cast L8 mage spells - I'm satisfied that the Fighter and Thief aspects are adequate, its just a let-down with the Mage part of things.

Agreed that it is disapointing, but wouldn't a f/t/m with lvl 9 mage spells be a tad on the overpowered side? I mean, time stop, assassination, and improved haste = mucho grande backstabbage with no personal risk.

[Dace De'Briago]

Not as if you can't cast Projected Image, use timestop from a scroll and use Assassination anyway, but it'd still be nice to have 'natural' L9 spells.

*sighs*

[krunchyfrogg]

Originally posted by Dace De'Briago: Go on, test it for me. Also, I almost always solo BG now, so levelling up is not a problem.

To be honest, I wouldn't know how to. I also do not solo, so hitting the XP cap is a problem. With a 5 person party in SoA, and a 6 person party in ToB, I still don't plan on having my characters hit the XP cap.

[SixOfSpades]

In my book, Multiclasses are more powerful than their respective Dual-classes, simply because of HLAs. Take the Ranger/Cleric: It gains HLAs only a little slower than the Ranger->Cleric (two classes, each levels up half as fast, and Rangers are slower than Clerics), but each time, you get to choose from either pool. So, while the Ranger->Cleric is choosing things like Earth Elemental Transformation and Mass Raise Dead (and, after they've already been chosen, nothing at all), the Ranger/Cleric is chalking up some more Hardinesses and Greater Whirlwinds.

Multiclasses are always at the top of their form. None of this "now we have to drag Jan along while we wait for my Level 25 Assassin to reactivate."

True, some of the kits, especially in combination with other classes, are insanely powerful: Kensai-Mage, Kensai->Thief, and Swashbuckler->Fighter are just plain nutso. But when you consider that Dualing means you must be Human, whereas Multiclasses must be demihuman, you soon realize that you're taking a kit and sacrificing good Saving Throws.