NPC ratings (spoilers)

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Originally posted by Wutchamakalit: quote: Originally posted by SixOfSpades: 11: Edwin. Sure, he's got a buttload of spells, and I'd be the last person to belittle having 4 Level 9 slots when a pure Mage would have 1....but not being able to wear Boots of Speed does put a damper on that, as does having no good stats apart from INT and CON.

About the boots of speed, you can delete the Affects that keep them from working on him with shadowkeeper. I can't remember which ones specifically,
but just remove everything that seems to have anything to do with his quest. Don't do it before it's finished obviously. You need to do this 3 times, once after the quest is done, once when you get to hell, and once when you start TOB. After that, he can run around just like everybody else. Kind of pain though, but atleast it works. [/QUOTE]Isn't that cheating? Or is Edwin having hard times with shoes (or rather: the Boots of Speed) a nasty always-occurring bug?

[Wutchamakalit]

Isn't that cheating? Or is Edwin having hard times with shoes (or rather: the Boots of Speed) a nasty always-occurring bug?

It's a bug with his quest, namely the transformation bit. According to the baldurdash fixpack:

... The reason for this was that the spell changing him to a female (and back to a male) stayed in his profile and thus was being constantly applied. This would cause his battle animation to be incorrect, his walking animation to make it look as if he was "floating" from place to place and also prevent the Boots Of Speed from working on him. These effects are unfortunately unavoidable while he is Edwina, but they are now properly removed when he is transformed back, either by the mage Degardan or when he goes to the Abyss.

I don't know why that fix doesn't work though. I guess Edwin has smelly feet or something.


edited because there's no reason to quote EVERYTHING

[ 07-14-2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Wutchamakalit ]

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Zarr: Just remembered, offensive spin doesn't work in conjunction with haste so then you'll just be able to cast stoneskin, mirror image, PFMW offensive spin and Tensers Transformation. Still a potent package though! [img]smile.gif[/img]

The speed bonuses stack, the attacks do not. And then there's Melf's Minute Meteors, combined with the fact that Haer'Dalis can dual wield...

[SpongeBobTheDestoyer]

There is no way to immunise a character against all damage and that is why you need lots of hp.

Let's see, PfME, PfFire, PfCold, PfElectricity, PfAcid, Stoneskin, PfMW, wearing the Ring of Gaxx or Periaph of Proof against poison. That pretty much covers physical, elemental and magical unless I forgot something. So if I had the choice of sending in someone to tank who could be buffed under all of those(Haer'Dalis) or someone who could not(Korgan), guess who I'm picking?

[Dirty Meg]

You are going to use 7 spells at once? You must have to rest every other battle. How do you complete the quests which are time based? How do you get out of the underdark without losing your stronghold?

[LennonCook]

The various protection spells are only necesary when fighting spellcasters - and even then, PfCold is useless (noone casts Ice Storm, and Cone of Cold is hardly devistating) and PfElectricity is only useful against Chain Lightning, and Lightning bolt - neither of which will damage Haer'Dalis significantly, assuming the lightning bolt hits him. 5 spells. Stoneskin can last for many fights, as not much will get past the Pro Magic Weapons. It can also be cast immediately before rest, or immediately after and it will last till you're fatigued. PfAcid can be done away with, because your only real threat is Melf's Acid Arrow. And in an unmodded game, most of the Mages you'll fight use that as one of their last spells, meaning they'll be dead long before they can cast it. And if we have Tactics installed, Haer'Dalis can use Sanchudooku. 4 spells. This is not a large number of buffs. Especially if you use contingencies and triggers. I would usually avoid PfMW aswell, because when they are hit, the others buffs will protect them. 3 spells. I would have Haer'Dalis with Melf's Minute Meteors, and Flail of Ages or Sanchu in the off-hand, and then cast Offensive Spin... and you have a character with 6 ranged attacks per round, dealing massive damage. And when he gets out into the middle of it, he's already killed one of the enemies, and then can cast Sunfire. The rest of the part can mop up the remaining enemies easily.
How can Korgan compare? Good armour (say, Red Dragon Scale), good axes or hammers (and your best hammer can't be gotten until chapter 6 -- axes I don't know about, though), and not be able to attack at all until out in the middle of everything. When he gets out there, he starts attacking, and can't do much else but attack. And when that Mage casts Horrid Wilting...

[teardropmina]

few things...
1. imo it's rather pointless judging the "value" of a NPC by setting up one on one fight between NPCs since NPCs are for us to fight enemies but not fighting each other. Whether any given NPC is better or worse is better evaluated, discussed in the context of his/her contribution to the party.

2. Every gamer has his/her own unique style of playing and different "tic" and I think the value/rating of NPCs will therefore necessarily vary depending on which gamer is giving the rating.

3. There are almost unlimited possibilities in unique personal gaming styles/approaches -- from the most basic varible, the party size (since we're talking about NPCs, no need for solo here)PC+ one NPC pair, trio, gang of four, five stars or the full party of six, we're going to find our favorite or deem as the best/most useful...NPCs.

looking through the whole Haer'Dalis vs. Korgan debate, I feel it's kinda comparing Apple to orange. Haer'Dalis CAN be used as a tank while tank is pretty much what Korgan has to be. Haer'Dalis is more resourceful and verstaile than Korgan for sure but he might not be the more appropriate tank or fighter (I use these two terms differently) providing different party configurations. All Haer'Dalis adventages over Korgan come from his none-fighter class abilities. In the end I see Haer'Dalis could be a more useful NPC but not necessarily a better fighter than Korgan to some parties. A Mazzy/Minsc/Korgan debate makes more sense to me.

Personally, I love to play the full party of six and oftentime arcane heavy ones at that...say, when I have PC Sorcerer, Imoen, and Aerie pretty much making the battle field a playground for my fighters...a Haer'Dalis seems quite redundant most of the time to me. Of course I can play a party of 3 or 4...but personally the full party of six is most enjoyable to play; that is with five incomplete and liable NPCs would be more fun with 2 extremely powerful and resourceful ones. Of course, that's because for me the rating isn't all about the practical/battle oriented value of a NPC, but to the whole roleplaying experience and I never venture beyond core-rules (tactics yes).

[ 07-15-2004, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: teardropmina ]

[SpongeBobTheDestoyer]

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: You are going to use 7 spells at once? You must have to rest every other battle.

Five of those last 1 turn per level of the caster, and stoneskin lasts all day. That's enough time to usually clear out a whole area. And I pick and choose which ones to use for the occasion, I was just stating that it is possible to be resistant to all types of damage since your post stated the contrary.

Originally posted by LennonCook: PfCold is useless (noone casts Ice Storm, PfAcid can be done away with, because your only real threat is Melf's Acid Arrow.

Enemies may not cast these spells but I do like to fire off a death fog or ice storm in the middle of a bunch of baddies and run in protected from them - Speeds up the killing process.

teardropmina - I agree with all your points, it's just fun to debate who can beat whom, kinda like the "my dad is better than your dad" bravado. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Elhardo]

My dad is 10 times better than your dad and if you dont shut up he'll kick your ass!!


"ill get my 20 year old brother on you naaanaaananananannanananaaaa"

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by SpongeBobTheDestoyer: quote: There is no way to immunise a character against all damage and that is why you need lots of hp.

Let's see, PfME, PfFire, PfCold, PfElectricity, PfAcid, Stoneskin, PfMW, wearing the Ring of Gaxx or Periaph of Proof against poison. That pretty much covers physical, elemental and magical unless I forgot something. So if I had the choice of sending in someone to tank who could be buffed under all of those(Haer'Dalis) or someone who could not(Korgan), guess who I'm picking? [/QUOTE]Why can't those same spells be cast on Korgan? I'm pretty sure almost all of those allow the caster to choose the recipient.