Working on a new kit

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Oh no no, I meant that the proficiency will be bastard sword, but I'll allow the class to put slots into Longsword as well.

[Butterfingers]

I think I see a gap here.

See, I was looking back and dealing with very old 2 Ed. stuff, most of it optional rules.

Both Clerics of Eilistraee and Sune gain vanilla bard abilities, Bard Song and Pick Pockets. Why pick pockets? I have no idea. Because good artists create and great artists steal? Is it because Elves are kleptomaniacs who can't keep those long slinky fingers to themselves? Is it because they just have to have that sheet music that real bard is selfishly hogging all to himself down at the other end of the bar? I don't know. Roleplaying opportunities? Actually, I could never understand why any Cleric kit needed thieving skills really... Except for Clerics of Brandobaris who gain a full array of thieving skills every level. One would expect those sneaky buggers to be thieves anyways.

[Imrahil]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: This will probably be a cleric kit. It relies a bit more on combat than the other cleric kits, and also addresses problems that I have with the weapon system. This is what I have so far. Things that I'm considering will be in parenthesis: Adept of Eilistraee *snip*

I like the concept, but I’d have to say it leans towards overpowered. There have to be times when you’d want to play one of the regular kits (or even a vanilla Cleric) & the only time I can think of with the current description would be “I want an Evil Cleric.”

Can put two (Three?) points into Longswords, Bastard Swords, (Two-Weapon Style?) and Single Weapon Style. Can only wear leather armor and elven chain. Followers of Eilistraee do not wear restrictive armor or clothing. Can not use shields, bracers, or helmets. See above. Can not use maces, morningstars, flails, or hammers. These are not elven weapons, and Eilistraee encourages use of the blade, so that's where this class will focus. I figure if I'm going to give clerics some weapons, I'm going to have to take away others.

The reason for the current restrictions on Clerics’ weapons & proficiencies is primarily game balance. You let my Cleric use a Long Sword (especially a “free” +2 one) & you can take away every other weapon option & I’ll still say I came out ahead. Let me put 2 (3) stars in Long Sword & Two-Weapon, & you’d need some serious counters to balance it out.

The armor restrictions are close, but you can get Elven Chain as early as Trademeet. Even without it, I’m only going to suffer a 5-6 point difference in AC (since I don’t care if you take away my Shield since I can dual-wield so effectively), & I’m a Cleric so I can buff myself to the hilt & heal anything that gets through. I assume you’d still allow Ioun Stones, so you can have my Helmet, too – I still come out way ahead, IMO.

Gain the spells Lower Resistance, Dimension Door, Teleport Field, Call Lightning, (Iron Skins?) (Considering Planetars... Clerics of Eilistraee get the Portal domain, and should have something better than a Deva to call.) Can not cast the following spells: Animate Dead, Unholy Blight, Unholy Word, Summon Fallen Deva, Gate, Finger of Death, Inflict wounds, Harm. These are not good-aligned spells.

I’ve gone whole games without casting any of those spells, so it’s pretty much a wash – nothing big gained, nothing big lost. OTOH, if you’re offering me the ability to cast Summon Planetar, you can replace my entire selection of 6th level spells with Goodberries & I’ll still be happy.

Feats/HLAs: I'm considering giving them Whirlwind Attack and Magic Flute. Custom abilities: Maiden's Sword ... Eilistraee's Song ...

I see nothing to balance out these abilities, so they go into the “reasons it’s overpowered” category, IMO.

Comments? Suggestions? I think much of this is doable. Do you think it's balanced enough?

Just my take on it, of course – I like the idea but it needs some more restrictions & disadvantages to cancel out the benefits over any of the other Cleric kits.

- Imrahil

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: I think I see a gap here. See, I was looking back and dealing with very old 2 Ed. stuff, most of it optional rules. Both Clerics of Eilistraee and Sune gain vanilla bard abilities, Bard Song and Pick Pockets. Why pick pockets? I have no idea. Because good artists create and great artists steal? Is it because Elves are kleptomaniacs who can't keep those long slinky fingers to themselves? Is it because they just have to have that sheet music that real bard is selfishly hogging all to himself down at the other end of the bar? I don't know. Roleplaying opportunities? Actually, I could never understand why any Cleric kit needed thieving skills really... Except for Clerics of Brandobaris who gain a full array of thieving skills every level. One would expect those sneaky buggers to be thieves anyways.

That's why I'm not remotely concerned with the inability to pick pockets.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Hmm... Valid points, Imrahil.
Let's see..... The planetars *are* a bit much. I'll nix those... Take away Iron Skins, Call Lightning, and Dual-Wielding... And only allow two slots in bastard sword, one in longsword. This isn't too far-fetched, I think.
I gave the clerics DD and Teleport Field because Eilistraee has the Portal domain, and that was the only way I found to indicate this.
I'm toying with throwing out the elven chainmail... Clerics of Eilistraee are encouraged to wear as little as possible.
Hmm, hmm..... I'm reluctant to say this, because of our favorite shapeshifting NPC, but what if I did away with armor altogether? Or perhaps only leather.

[JrKASperov]

Elven chain mail IS as little as possible

[SixOfSpades]

I, too, like the idea behind the kit but see how it's overpowered. Think of the poor vanilla Cleric, sobbing away in the back corner with Cernd and the straight Paladin.

Bard Song itself cannot be added to the Special Abilities menu, as it's more of a state than an ability. You can, however, add an ability that uses the Bard Song icon--using the ability will remove the icon, then put it back after the Song's duration has expired (which should be 1 round, to prevent fighting & singing at the same time).

What I would do:
~snip

copied 2 posts down.

[ 04-13-2004, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[Jerr Conner]

I wish this game had subraces like IWDII.

I once made a Dark Elf and it irked me she was continually called just an Elf throughout the game!

Like the idead, though, Illumina.

[SixOfSpades]

ADVANTAGES:

• Can attain Specialization (++) in Long Sword, Bastard Sword, Two-Weapon Style and Single Weapon Style.
• The spells of Dimension Door and Teleport Field are added to the Priest Scroll
• Special ability of Sacred Melody: For 1 round, the Cleric sings a powerful tune holy to the Goddess Eilistraee, and the party enjoys a -2 THAC0 bonus and +10% Magic Resistance. This may be used infinite times per day, but is not cumulative with itself.
• Gains the HLAs of Magic Flute, Greater Elemental Summoning, and Improved Bard Song (which strengthens their Sacred Melody)
• At Level 12, the priest is granted the Maiden's Sword, a gift from Eilistraee and only usable by followers of Lady Silverhair. It is a +2 Bastard Sword that does an additional +2 damage against Undead, but -2 damage against Good and Elven targets (cumulative). At Level 19, the sword becomes +4 enchanted and splashes a small amount of Elven Holy Water on the victim, causing +2 damage against Demons and +4 against Undead. At Level 25, the Maiden's Sword becomes +5 enchanted, retains previous bonuses, and also grants +1 to STR, +5% Magic Resistance, and an extra 6th and 7th level spell.

DISADVANTAGES:

• Uses D6 hit dice instead of a normal Priest's D8.
• May wear only Leather, Studded Leather, and Elven Chain.
• May not use shields or helmets.
• May not put proficiency points into any Blunt weapons except the Club and Staff.
• Does not gain a Holy Symbol at Level 25 (as the Maiden's Sword already is the Holy Symbol).
• Can not cast the following spells: Animate Dead, Unholy Blight, Unholy Word, Summon Fallen Deva, Gate, Finger of Death, Cause Wounds, or Harm.
• Does not gain the HLAs of Implosion, Earth Elemental Transformation, Fire Elemental Transformation, or Aura of Flaming Death.

Notes: The Maiden's Sword can never be used to heal victims. A Bastard Sword +2 does 2D4+2 damage, resulting in a minimum damage of 4. Strike a Good Elf with it and get a damage of 0.

I'm allowing them to wear Bracers, as that fits well with the style of the unencumbered duelist. This would be overpowered in the case of Cleric/Mages and the like (as it leaves the door wide open for the Robe of Vecna), but happily this kit can't Dual.

The D6 Hit Dice could be implemented for Priests by creating a new spell (which has a 12% chance of lowering the target's max HP by 1, 13% chance of lowering target's max HP by 2, 75% chance of doing nothing) and casting it on the Priest at every Level Up on Levels 1 through 9.

[Butterfingers]

Six, your outline looks fantastic.

My only beef would be the Elven Holy Water. That stuff is over the top. Having a sword that would splash it would be... Well... Insane.

Anything undead when being splashed by EHW must make a SvD at a major penalty or be utterly dusted. Even scary things, like Demi Liches, Arch Liches, even Nether Wraiths can be vaporized by just a splash. Such a weapon would gather the attention of some very powerful beings that would do anything to remove it from the world. As for demons, it has a chance of banishing lesser demons back to their home plane on a failed SvD and on greater demons, it burns like acid doing I forget how much damage per round for a dice rolls worth of rounds. EHW really, is just about the most powerful element in the game. I just couldn't imagine such a thing spraying out of what amounts to a squirt gun. When the Elves make holy water, they go all out, as Elves detest the undead. (Well, most elves)

It would be the ultimate undead slaying weapon though, even beating out the IMoD.