How to cast spells on Lich (Tactics spoiler)

[teardropmina]

ok, so this time I try the smarter Lich mod...and it seems to have no way to dispell their invisible/or half visible/in sanciturary state. That means that we cannot cast spell to dispell his spell/combat protection. and he's having fun time stop-ADHWs-FoDs...us and our summons, while it cannot be hurt. I managed to beat the one in Underdark, elemental lich in the bridge, and the one in City Gate; but it's quite frustrating that I just have to have my party survive and wait until those liches run out their spells (at least they don't have unlimited spells ) This is really an unstatisfied way to beat liches. How do you old hands beat them? how to dispell their protection?
Turning ture Sight on doesn't really do anything, they're partially visible but they're in sancituary. Also, IIRC, liches are not affected by lvl 1- lvl 5 spells, and so remove magic or dispell magic simply won't work. How to cast spells on them????

[Lord]

Do you have version 17 of the tactics mod installed? It's new, and should help balance out the game a little more.

[ZFR]

Have you tried the thief ability detect illusion?

[teardropmina]

Lord, I'm playing version 17 right now. Mages and Liches are still able to cast around 15 (not counting their contingencies and chain contingencies) buff-up spells in half a second (during pause and unpause, that brief [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

ZFR, my only thief is Imone, her detect illusion ability, ehhh...precisely ZERO )

will that work? high level theif detect illusion can do something that True Sight cannot?

[Lord]

Detect Illusion (thief ability) works better than True Sight. It affects more things, too.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Not if you have zero points there, though.... Hm. Is it possible for you to run out and get Jan for the battle's duration? He's good at detecting illusions. Which lich is this?

[Assassin]

Okay, let me explain the circle of despair to you for a Lich(for spell protections):

1) SIivination
2) Improved Invisibile
3) SI:Abjuration
4) Protection from Magical Weapons
5) Protection from Energy

This is a pain in the butt to face, especially because Lichs have their spell immunity for spells from level 1-5 and all.

Why? Okay, because of their immunity, I've found out the most effective way is to attack them physically, or Turn Undead. Turn Undead on Lichs doesn't work until you get to the high levels. And you can't attack him because of the PfMW, not to mention that they have immunity to normal weapons on anyways.

The most effective way to counter PfMW or any other combat protection is by using Breach or something similar. However, it's only targettable on a creature. Improved Invisible doesn't allow you to target the creature with spells until you dispel it. You can't dispel it using True Sight or Dispel Magic because of the Spell Immunities the Lich has up. And you can't remove the Spell Immunities because the only spells that'll remove them are targettable on the creature, which Imp. Invisibility blocks. Oh, and you can't bombard with ADHW because of the PfE. Confused yet?

Ways to circumvent the circle of despair for Lichs that I use:

1) Detect Illusions. It allows you to strip the Improved Invisibility, which allows you to in turn to take away the spell protections, which in turn allows you to Dispel or something the stupid thing.

2) Breach Wand. IIRC, you can target wands on Improved Invisible creatures. While this allows you to immediately block the most immediate combat protection, smarter Liches will re-cast PfMW, which means that you'll have to use another charge. They only have 5 charges on them, so be prepared to either do a lot of running back and forth and using a lot of gold to recharge them, or use them sparingly.

3) Breach using Wish.

4) Breach using Chain Contingency.

5) Wait it out. A M/C can sit there all day, twiddling their thumbs with SI: Abby and protected to the brim, waiting for the PfMW gap so that it can smash into it with the MoD+2.

[ 03-14-2004, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

[teardropmina]

hey, Assassin, that's a nice run down of our frustrations of liches

three questions,
1. breach is lvl 5 spell, isn't lich supposed to be immune to it (I did recall to read tons of "Elemental Lich: Spell ineffective" after I breach it over and over again in between its time stop+ imp. invisiblity re-buff)?
2. is the detect illusions you mentioned the thief's ability? (does that mean no mage/priest spell can dispel lich's invisibility?)
3. without being able to dispel the invisibility, only the breach wand and the old waiting for their wearing off their spells could work. and if I don't want to get to WK to get that Wand in SoA, I'll just need to stick to the wait/survive and kill tactic [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img]

[Jerr Conner]

How about Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield? Also Ruby Ray of Reversal?

[teardropmina]

Originally posted by Jerr Conner: How about Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield? Also Ruby Ray of Reversal?

all these, just like breach, can only work IF we successfully dispel lich's invisibility (which I cannot do).