Six's Review of the Tactics MOD (Tactics Spoilers Galore) - Page 3

Assassin · 02-18-2004, 05:57 PM

Cast PfMW. CAst PfNM. Run up. Cast Sunfire. Toast Sahaguin.

Oh, and I completely agree with the Wraith of Wrath. Incidentally, you could cast Time Stop off a scroll, then butcher him during it, however...

[ 02-18-2004, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

SixOfSpades · 02-18-2004, 09:33 PM

Pirengle: The "For some reason, you cannot go back the way you just came in" line was only used three times. So there. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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Odruith: You mention having the "improved planar sphere" MOD. I haven't heard of this one. Is it a power MOD, affecting the difficulty of the battles, or is it a dialogue MOD, focusing on the apprentices, and hopefully making it a bit easier (for PCs of all classes) to get the Golden Girdle?

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I strongly agree about the implausibility of resting in mid-quest, especially Jon's Dungeon, but sometimes this is nearly unavoidable. Still, I'm happy to say that out of my 4 games, all of them except Hemorrhoids got through the Dungeon without Resting. Too bad you don't get the Pocket Plane until ToB, so you can sleep in the middle of a quest and still not stretch the roleplay too far.

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Dundee: Oh yeah, I knew the Muggers were part of the original game, not an intended part of Lich in the Docks, I was merely voicing my surprise that GBlucher had not blocked the Thugs' spawning in that particular area. I should have been more clear on that in the Review--I will make a small edit to clarify.

"Triggers & Contigencies cannot be used by the script. You have to manually use it." Uhh--what? This is the part where I wish I'd learned more about scripting. If they can't be scripted, how exactly to those running on AI use them? Do they just pretend, as in they print the line "Chain Contingency" before ReallyForceSpelling the 3 spells that would have been in that Contingency?

If you're running an Evil Fighter->Cleric, I would have no problem with hacking yourself the Priest of Talos kit. Storm Shield ought to make the Improved Small Teeth almost doable for a soloist....oh, but you're with a party. Hm. Now that you've got me on STP, this thought just went through my head: I remembered the part of the Review where I said, "Thanks again for starting us out right next to a f'ing Dragon. What, did it sneak up to us in Stealth or something?" and my train of thought continued with, "Thank God it can't Backstab."

Not that I intend to be giving anyone ideas or anything.

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Assassin: [Regarding my proposed Duergar Patrols in Jon's Dungeon] No, I actually meant 200,000 to 300,000 EXP each. True, that would make them difficult to beat, but having them be a tenth of that would make them little more than roadkill. Look at it this way: Each of your (4 or 5) party members has at least 89,000 EXP, and the PC can start with up to 161,000. So the difference in levels can equalize the player's tactics and ability to learn. All their equipment is droppable, so item disparity quickly becomes moot. And they don't respawn right in front of you (unless you Rest), in fact they don't respawn at all.

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Xen: I actually like the levels Weimer selected for Ilyich and his gang--except for Zhivago. I, too, am offended by the notion that someone like Irenicus would hire incompetents to guard his lair. I seriously would have given this component a much higher grade if Weimer had thought out the Shadow Thieves more thoroughly.
Devas do not carry a Vorpal weapon (except to Undead), you're thinking of Planetars. What Devas can do is Stun on hit. The Text Window doesn't show it, but when I took the screenshot showing Caedmon & the 2 Fallen Devas, the first hit he took managed to Stun him--that's why he remained still long enough for the 2nd one to hit him, too.
Ummm--if Player1 isn't smart enough to "Divide & Conquer," then Player1 isn't smart enough to survive a good, tough fight.

I agree that the 7-hour time limit in the Ritual is a bit odd. How much of the beginning part of the game do most parties spend with their lives depending on a single Ring of Regeneration or similar item? If you don't have oodles of Healing Potions (okay, Ponty gives you 5, but like that's going to be enough) or spells ready to cast (because you can't sleep for more), there's no way a low- or mid-level party can hope to clear the place in just 7 hours.
Suggested Changes: Have Pontifex refuse to offer the Ritual quest to a PC of less than at least 1 million EXP. Since the closest map to the Watcher's Keep is 8 hours' Travel Time away (that's the Siege Camp, is there a closer one in SoA?), the time limit can be safely extended to 15 hours and still ensure that the timer must have expired before the player can speak with Pontifex again. Also, give a few party NPCs some interjections in the dialogue: The more Lawful of them would likely desire to have some indication of where the quest stands on the Good/Evil scale of things, and Keldorn in particular should raise his hackles when it is suggested that he fight a fellow Inquisitor.

"Without True Sight there is a little option for Player1 to actually hit him [Improved TorGal]." Xen, are you assuming Player1 is a Wizard? Warriors can hit him just fine, it's just a matter of how hard and how rapidly, and how well they make their Saves. I actually did not know his shimmer effect could be dispelled until after I'd beaten him all 4 times. Pity, really, Nalia would have liked to do more to save her Keep than simply be the bait, and hit him with a lucky Arrow of Fire every now & then.

I don't really mind that fact that Imp. Bodhi's Fireshield: Blue is undispellable as much as I mind how much damage it causes. I mean, no matter how many Breaches you cast at her, it's not going to make her Undead flesh any warmer. But still, just because she's cold-blooded doesn't mean simply touching her has to result in a frostbitten arm, especially when it's a nice, hefty Axe doing the actual touching.

[Regarding Kuroisan:] "He can be beaten with usage of cheese but Player1 doesn't know cheese." I actually found beat him in 4 different ways with the 4 parties, none of which I would consider cheesy. Kyrenia, for example, did it with almost no Wizards at all:
As soon as he appeared, in Trademeet, we attacked him, and quickly discovered his PfMW. So the party turned to the Potions of Invisibility they keep handy in their Quick Items, and thought out their plan of attack. Kelsey & Imoen stood just out of K's sight range, with everyone else forming a meat wall to shield them from their adversary. Imoen and Kelsey both cast Breach, which hit Kuroisan becore he could close the distance to my party, whereupon K, seeing his protections gone, ran into the Lurraxol estate for cover. Undaunted, I sent in Valygar and Keldorn, both of whom were still Invisible. Kuriosan had cast another PfMW, so my boys stood out of his sight range while Keldorn Dispelled. Immediately, Valygar ran up (Boots of Speed), Backstabbed, and ran away again before Keldorn's next Dispel Magic took care of Kuroisan's next PfMW. 3 or 4 iterations of this was enough to send the Kensai down.

[Regarding the Lich in the Docks:] "too powerful for low-level wondering party." Weimer states in the Tactics README that most of the components are for people already familiar with the game, and know precisely where, and/or under what conditions, they will be encountered. Weimer names the specific house where the Lich lives (unlives?), and implies that whoever goes in there needs to be fully prepared. But what he does not say is that the exit has been removed, nor do I agree with how that makes one of the most basic, time-honored, and lifesaving procedures--"Send the Thief in first, to scout out the area in Stealth"--pretty much suicide for at least 1 party member.

[Regarding Smarter Beholders:] "I don`t think it removes the Shield Of Balduran cheese." Well, it says it does: All Beholderkin are scripted not to cast their rays at anyone wearing the Shield of Balduran. The reason I said that "(I think)" it removes the SoB cheese is because of something I noticed in the Improved Sahuagin City: Even Kensai can be immune to their Bolts because the Sahuagin aren't scripted not to fire at characters wearing the Shield of Reflection, they're only scripted not to fire at people carrying it. So you could be toting the Shield around in your backpack and they still won't shoot you, for fear of the ricochet. I would have tested to see if this was true of the Shield of Balduran as well, except that I pretend it doesn't exist.

Xen, no way in hell is an Inquisitor more powerful than an Anti-Paladin. The sole advantage an Inquisitor has is the ability to use Paladin weapons and other items that require non-Evil alignment.

[Regarding the Improved North Forest:] "Like it but too easy." Now that you mention it, it may very well be too easy. But then again, to a high-level party dripping with powerful baubles and artifacts won in the Underdark, what wouldn't be easy? The enemy party is here for the purpose of opening a tomb (after disposing of its guardians) and collecting its treasures--not for the purpose of standing up to a high-level party that's quite probably in the ToB range by now. Besides, the Mage does cast Time Stop (from a scroll, ergo uninterruptible) if you let him.....I've simply never let him.

"How on earth will stupid Fire Giatns with a brain of a pigeon cast Stoneskin?" Fire Giants casting Stoneskin is apparently a product of Improved Battles, not Tactics.

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Dundee: "Given the nature of his [Pontifex's] dialogue, I believe the intention was to make the quest a parody of stereotypical AD&D adventures, hence no comprehensive background story."
What do you mean? Lots of D&D stories have good backgrounds, or at least among the ones I've seen. In my opinion, backstory and subplot are always good, whether in a parody or not.

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Bill26: The Balor's Paralytic Gaze does allow a Saving Throw, which the party members can indeed make....although they're hardly likely to, at their given levels. Imoen's Belt grants immunity to it. I personally haven't noticed that the Horror they use allows no Save, but that may be because that party members using the "Standard Attack" AI will still attack Hostile creatures, even when Panicked. (Of course, this comes as no consolation when a Shadow Thief appears right in front of your face in the hallway leading to the Cambion, Panics half your party, and then after you've killed him two of your friends step on the Spike Trap and die.)

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Dundee: I, myself, noticed Karamazov to have one of the FEMALE soundsets choosable for the PC during Character Creation--a trait shared by a great deal of the Tactics badguys. (Sneak around the Ritual and listen to them all say, "My casting has been interrupted." [img]smile.gif[/img] ) Are you sure you weren't just confusing that soundset with Imoen's?
Yeah, I'd overlooked those Shadow Thieves in the very bottom corner of the map, and before I'd even finished reading your theorized explanation I came to the same conclusion: They were members of the first wave (Before "More intruders have entered the complex, Master"), and Jon simply sealed the Portal behind him in order to confine them to smaller area.

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Rataxes: "That 'invisibility ability with infinite castings' that the Shadow Thieves have, has name, it is Hide in Shadows. They're thieves, and so should naturally have it. What they have naturally isn't that exact ability, but it does a good job simulating it, and they can/will only use it when they step out of your sight, the same restriction imposed on the standard stealth ability."
Normal Hide in Shadows can be dispelled by a Thief's Detect Illusions ability, but the Invisibility used by the Thieves in Improved Ilyich (and Shadow Thief Improvements, by the by) cannot. During my "cheat in the name of debugging" phase, I gave myself 150% in Detect Illusion, drank an Invisibilty Potion, and hung around some War Dogs for a while. Never saw a dang thing. Similarly, I CLUA'd Hemorrhoids a scroll of True Sight, stood out of sight of a nearby Shadow Thief, and read it. The Text Window went like this:
Hemorrhoids- True Sight
Shadow Thief- Invisibility
Hemorrhoids- True Sight
Shadow Thief- Invisibility
Hemorrhoids- True Sight
Shadow Thief- Invisibility.....etc.

As for the Shadow Thieves being limited to only two "charges" on their Wand-abilities, you may be right--I've never seen them do it more than twice. But it's kind of ridiculous that killing a Shadow Thief the instant he appears (oh, if that were only possible) nets you the exact same Wand you would have gotten had you let him use it to his heart's content. Now, the enemies in the Shadow Thief Improvements MOD actually use their Wands, a trait that Weimer would do well to emulate if he continues in this vein.

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Gangrell: "That was a rather good review Six, as I do agree with most of what you wrote."
Oh, you agree with it, so it must have been good?

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

"As for Kangaxx himself, unless you have spell immunity on, you are screwed because he has a near unlimited amount of Imprisonment spells as a innate ability."
Since that was part of the original game, I'm not sure that's relevant to the Tactics MOD.

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Assassin: "Cast PfMW. CAst PfNM. Run up. Cast Sunfire. Toast Sahaguin."
Okay, that could work, but that would be even slower than the Physical Mirror method. A Level 6 slot and at least 1 Level 5 slot for every single group of 4 Sahuagin? Dang. (And you wouldn't need the PfNM anyway.)

"Oh, and I completely agree with the Wraith of Wrath. Incidentally, you could cast Time Stop off a scroll, then butcher him during it, however..."
This is true, especially since Lich in the Docks means there are up to six scrolls of Time Stop potentially available by that time. Still, even with Nalia or Imoen going the Belm+Kundane+Imp.Haste route, that's going to require more than 1 scroll, especially if I'm correctly recalling that the Wraith has some hefty Resistance to Physical damage as well.

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Whew! A lot of replies. I'm surprised they're all mostly positive, though--I hope Weimer doesn't think Ironworks is nothing more than "Jim, Dundee, Six....and their followers" or something like that. Good thing Kish is busy setting be straight on a few things over at Forgotten Wars.

I've received a number of requests for info on the Tome of Retroactive Convenience. Here's the scoop: It is a custom item I made myself in IEEP. Whenever I start a new game, the very first thing I do is CLUA it into my Inventory, then place it in my Quickslot and use it. This does 3 things:
1) Applies the permanent stat bonuses earned through reading the Tomes in BG1 (+1 to STR, DEX, CON, INT, CHA, and +3 to WIS)
2) Sets the user's current EXP to 161,000
3) Creates the Golden Pantaloons in my Inventory.
The Tome disappears upon use, of course. So far, the only way I've discovered in which it can be used unfairly (apart from the obvious ways, like giving it to an NPC, giving it to the PC more than once, or giving it to a character rolled in BG1 who has already used at least one of the Tomes) is giving it to a Dual-classed character: The ToRC sets the user's second class's EXP to 161,000, regardless of how much EXP is in the first class. So, theoretically, somebody could roll a Kensai, then immediately Dual-class to Mage, use the ToRC, and instantly gain 9 levels as a Mage and get their Kensai half back.

I would suggest that, if you want to use the ToRC yourself, you should learn to use IEEP. That won't get you the ToRC any quicker, but I find IEEP to be extremely fun and useful, and using it is SO EASY. True. If you don't want to go that route, send me a request via Email ( sixospades@yahoo.com ), and I'll send it to you--but guess what, you're going to have to use IEEP anyway, to put the Item Name and Description on it. Ha Haaaaa. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 02-19-2004, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

Dundee Slaytern · 02-18-2004, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rataxes:
The Shadow Thieves's wands don't have infinite uses. The thieves can only use it twice, and that's it. I do share your frustration over the wands's effects. The Demon Paralyze might be the most powerful, but at least you can avoid/resist/save against it. What really gets me is that the Wand of Fear ignores both saves and MR, making it the only truly unavoidable weapon the thieves possess. The one and only defense against it is immunity to fear.

You can save against the Wand of Fear. I have had party members succeed. I mean sure, 4 out of 5 fail their saves, but it does not ignore Saving Throws. However, at least panicked members can move. The AoE Hold Bomb is what causes me to reload, because it is autohit for the enemy... ...

Dundee Slaytern · 02-18-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Uhh--what? This is the part where I wish I'd learned more about scripting. If they can't be scripted, how exactly to those running on AI use them? Do they just pretend, as in they print the line "Chain Contingency" before ReallyForceSpelling the 3 spells that would have been in that Contingency?

Yes. All that Magic Tattoos, Chain Contingencies, etc... you saw in the default game? It was all pretend. They were all really ReallyForceSpell() with DisplayString() to mimic the real thing.

Lord · 02-19-2004, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Assassin:
Cast PfMW. CAst PfNM. Run up. Cast Sunfire. Toast Sahaguin.

Oh, and I completely agree with the Wraith of Wrath. Incidentally, you could cast Time Stop off a scroll, then butcher him during it, however...

You can't cast both PfNW and PfMW at the same time.

Lord · 02-19-2004, 01:48 AM

I have my two cents to add in about some of this.

The Improved Guarded Compound is supposed to be a pretty difficult battle. I managed to wipe every one out with a solo level 17 Assassin. Then I go and complete Trademeet, so I'm at a higher level. I decided to just go to Kangaxx and lift the coffin stuff and junk, but not actually go a fight him (I didn't have his arms and legs, anyways). But his guardians are just goddamn impossible. 2 liches, a dwarf that I'm pretty sure starts off with improved haste, a fighter that's not so remarkable, and then Djinns froms the liches summons. First off, at this point, I think I was at level 18, and I had 102 HP (wearing an Ioun stone that adds +10% to HP). I can't hide in the shadows since they're hostile in there, so I drink a potion of invisibility. Then I prepare to stand behind the dwarf, ready to make a backstab. However, the dwarf won't budge, and his back is to the wall. He only moves once he's got a target. So I go to the fighter to backstab, only to have a lich cast time stop and then trigger a continency of 2 or 3 ADHW. WTF is up with that? That's enough to take out Korgan after coming back from the Underdark. I reloaded over and over, and simply can't complete this fight. How is it that I can complete the Improved Guarded Compound, but not be able to complete the Improved Kangaxx Guardians? Weimer obviously didn't consider this when he made the guardians. What's more is that one of the liches always has ADHW ready to blow me away in a second. Doesn't sound right to me.

Dundee Slaytern · 02-19-2004, 02:26 AM

? ADHWs in a Chain Contingency is a pretty standard tactic, and easily defended against too. You mentioned Tradesmeet. Have you obtained the Belt of Inertial Barrier?

The only debatable hostile for Kangaxx's Guardians is the vorpal ability of the Dwarf.

Lord · 02-19-2004, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
? ADHWs in a Chain Contingency is a pretty standard tactic, and easily defended against too. You mentioned Tradesmeet. Have you obtained the Belt of Inertial Barrier?

The only debatable hostile for Kangaxx's Guardians is the vorpal ability of the Dwarf.

I've got the belt, but I'm pretty sure that even with it on, the ADHW would kill me. And I think the liches cast more than one of the CC containing these, too.

Rataxes · 02-19-2004, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:

quote:
Originally posted by Rataxes:
The Shadow Thieves's wands don't have infinite uses. The thieves can only use it twice, and that's it. I do share your frustration over the wands's effects. The Demon Paralyze might be the most powerful, but at least you can avoid/resist/save against it. What really gets me is that the Wand of Fear ignores both saves and MR, making it the only truly unavoidable weapon the thieves possess. The one and only defense against it is immunity to fear.

You can save against the Wand of Fear. I have had party members succeed. I mean sure, 4 out of 5 fail their saves, but it does not ignore Saving Throws. However, at least panicked members can move. The AoE Hold Bomb is what causes me to reload, because it is autohit for the enemy... ... [/QUOTE]I've tested this with potions of Magic Shielding active. That thing does not allow a save, it doesn't even provide any "XXXXXX: Saved vs Spell X" battle text. I think this may just be one of those odd version-based differences we've had a few of in the past. I'll agree that being panicked isn't as bad as being held. Heck, it's usually a perfectly harmless effect when dealing with a slow melee-only enemy like that, but it's still tiresome to know that if a thief pulls out a Wand of Fear and you don't happen to be immune to fear, you are going to run around the level like a mad chicken for the next turn or so.

[ 02-19-2004, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

Dundee Slaytern · 02-19-2004, 03:00 AM

Assuming good saves, x3 ADHWs in a CC and 50% Magic Damage Resistance. The average damage is 67.5 dmg. Your Assassin can more than survive it.

Assuming the worst, the maximum damage with good saves, x3 ADHWs and 50% MD Resistance is 120 dmg. A level 17 Assassin with at least 16 CON will have 88HP. So yeah, it then becomes a problem. However... since you are soloing, you can always come back later with more HP and UAI (which will enable you to drink Potions of Heroism and Potion of Magic Shielding, granting you more HP and immunity to Magic Damage).

02-18-2004, 05:57 PM	#21
Assassin Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 23, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 37 Posts: 1,134	Cast PfMW. CAst PfNM. Run up. Cast Sunfire. Toast Sahaguin. Oh, and I completely agree with the Wraith of Wrath. Incidentally, you could cast Time Stop off a scroll, then butcher him during it, however... [ 02-18-2004, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ] __________________ In The Terminator, Sarah Connor is told a speech by John Connor\'s father that John has given in the future. When John is born, Sarah tells John this speech, and John grows up to tell it in the future. So who wrote the speech?!

02-18-2004, 09:33 PM	#22
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 48 Posts: 6,901	Pirengle: The "For some reason, you cannot go back the way you just came in" line was only used three times. So there. [img]tongue.gif[/img] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Odruith: You mention having the "improved planar sphere" MOD. I haven't heard of this one. Is it a power MOD, affecting the difficulty of the battles, or is it a dialogue MOD, focusing on the apprentices, and hopefully making it a bit easier (for PCs of all classes) to get the Golden Girdle? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I strongly agree about the implausibility of resting in mid-quest, especially Jon's Dungeon, but sometimes this is nearly unavoidable. Still, I'm happy to say that out of my 4 games, all of them except Hemorrhoids got through the Dungeon without Resting. Too bad you don't get the Pocket Plane until ToB, so you can sleep in the middle of a quest and still not stretch the roleplay too far. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dundee: Oh yeah, I knew the Muggers were part of the original game, not an intended part of Lich in the Docks, I was merely voicing my surprise that GBlucher had not blocked the Thugs' spawning in that particular area. I should have been more clear on that in the Review--I will make a small edit to clarify. "Triggers & Contigencies cannot be used by the script. You have to manually use it." Uhh--what? This is the part where I wish I'd learned more about scripting. If they can't be scripted, how exactly to those running on AI use them? Do they just pretend, as in they print the line "Chain Contingency" before ReallyForceSpelling the 3 spells that would have been in that Contingency? If you're running an Evil Fighter->Cleric, I would have no problem with hacking yourself the Priest of Talos kit. Storm Shield ought to make the Improved Small Teeth almost doable for a soloist....oh, but you're with a party. Hm. Now that you've got me on STP, this thought just went through my head: I remembered the part of the Review where I said, "Thanks again for starting us out right next to a f'ing Dragon. What, did it sneak up to us in Stealth or something?" and my train of thought continued with, "Thank God it can't Backstab." Not that I intend to be giving anyone ideas or anything. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assassin: [Regarding my proposed Duergar Patrols in Jon's Dungeon] No, I actually meant 200,000 to 300,000 EXP each. True, that would make them difficult to beat, but having them be a tenth of that would make them little more than roadkill. Look at it this way: Each of your (4 or 5) party members has at least 89,000 EXP, and the PC can start with up to 161,000. So the difference in levels can equalize the player's tactics and ability to learn. All their equipment is droppable, so item disparity quickly becomes moot. And they don't respawn right in front of you (unless you Rest), in fact they don't respawn at all. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xen: I actually like the levels Weimer selected for Ilyich and his gang--except for Zhivago. I, too, am offended by the notion that someone like Irenicus would hire incompetents to guard his lair. I seriously would have given this component a much higher grade if Weimer had thought out the Shadow Thieves more thoroughly. Devas do not carry a Vorpal weapon (except to Undead), you're thinking of Planetars. What Devas can do is Stun on hit. The Text Window doesn't show it, but when I took the screenshot showing Caedmon & the 2 Fallen Devas, the first hit he took managed to Stun him--that's why he remained still long enough for the 2nd one to hit him, too. Ummm--if Player1 isn't smart enough to "Divide & Conquer," then Player1 isn't smart enough to survive a good, tough fight. I agree that the 7-hour time limit in the Ritual is a bit odd. How much of the beginning part of the game do most parties spend with their lives depending on a single Ring of Regeneration or similar item? If you don't have oodles of Healing Potions (okay, Ponty gives you 5, but like that's going to be enough) or spells ready to cast (because you can't sleep for more), there's no way a low- or mid-level party can hope to clear the place in just 7 hours. Suggested Changes: Have Pontifex refuse to offer the Ritual quest to a PC of less than at least 1 million EXP. Since the closest map to the Watcher's Keep is 8 hours' Travel Time away (that's the Siege Camp, is there a closer one in SoA?), the time limit can be safely extended to 15 hours and still ensure that the timer must have expired before the player can speak with Pontifex again. Also, give a few party NPCs some interjections in the dialogue: The more Lawful of them would likely desire to have some indication of where the quest stands on the Good/Evil scale of things, and Keldorn in particular should raise his hackles when it is suggested that he fight a fellow Inquisitor. "Without True Sight there is a little option for Player1 to actually hit him [Improved TorGal]." Xen, are you assuming Player1 is a Wizard? Warriors can hit him just fine, it's just a matter of how hard and how rapidly, and how well they make their Saves. I actually did not know his shimmer effect could be dispelled until after I'd beaten him all 4 times. Pity, really, Nalia would have liked to do more to save her Keep than simply be the bait, and hit him with a lucky Arrow of Fire every now & then. I don't really mind that fact that Imp. Bodhi's Fireshield: Blue is undispellable as much as I mind how much damage it causes. I mean, no matter how many Breaches you cast at her, it's not going to make her Undead flesh any warmer. But still, just because she's cold-blooded doesn't mean simply touching her has to result in a frostbitten arm, especially when it's a nice, hefty Axe doing the actual touching. [Regarding Kuroisan:] "He can be beaten with usage of cheese but Player1 doesn't know cheese." I actually found beat him in 4 different ways with the 4 parties, none of which I would consider cheesy. Kyrenia, for example, did it with almost no Wizards at all: As soon as he appeared, in Trademeet, we attacked him, and quickly discovered his PfMW. So the party turned to the Potions of Invisibility they keep handy in their Quick Items, and thought out their plan of attack. Kelsey & Imoen stood just out of K's sight range, with everyone else forming a meat wall to shield them from their adversary. Imoen and Kelsey both cast Breach, which hit Kuroisan becore he could close the distance to my party, whereupon K, seeing his protections gone, ran into the Lurraxol estate for cover. Undaunted, I sent in Valygar and Keldorn, both of whom were still Invisible. Kuriosan had cast another PfMW, so my boys stood out of his sight range while Keldorn Dispelled. Immediately, Valygar ran up (Boots of Speed), Backstabbed, and ran away again before Keldorn's next Dispel Magic took care of Kuroisan's next PfMW. 3 or 4 iterations of this was enough to send the Kensai down. [Regarding the Lich in the Docks:] "too powerful for low-level wondering party." Weimer states in the Tactics README that most of the components are for people already familiar with the game, and know precisely where, and/or under what conditions, they will be encountered. Weimer names the specific house where the Lich lives (unlives?), and implies that whoever goes in there needs to be fully prepared. But what he does not say is that the exit has been removed, nor do I agree with how that makes one of the most basic, time-honored, and lifesaving procedures--"Send the Thief in first, to scout out the area in Stealth"--pretty much suicide for at least 1 party member. [Regarding Smarter Beholders:] "I don`t think it removes the Shield Of Balduran cheese." Well, it says it does: All Beholderkin are scripted not to cast their rays at anyone wearing the Shield of Balduran. The reason I said that "(I think)" it removes the SoB cheese is because of something I noticed in the Improved Sahuagin City: Even Kensai can be immune to their Bolts because the Sahuagin aren't scripted not to fire at characters wearing the Shield of Reflection, they're only scripted not to fire at people carrying it. So you could be toting the Shield around in your backpack and they still won't shoot you, for fear of the ricochet. I would have tested to see if this was true of the Shield of Balduran as well, except that I pretend it doesn't exist. Xen, no way in hell is an Inquisitor more powerful than an Anti-Paladin. The sole advantage an Inquisitor has is the ability to use Paladin weapons and other items that require non-Evil alignment. [Regarding the Improved North Forest:] "Like it but too easy." Now that you mention it, it may very well be too easy. But then again, to a high-level party dripping with powerful baubles and artifacts won in the Underdark, what wouldn't be easy? The enemy party is here for the purpose of opening a tomb (after disposing of its guardians) and collecting its treasures--not for the purpose of standing up to a high-level party that's quite probably in the ToB range by now. Besides, the Mage does cast Time Stop (from a scroll, ergo uninterruptible) if you let him.....I've simply never let him. "How on earth will stupid Fire Giatns with a brain of a pigeon cast Stoneskin?" Fire Giants casting Stoneskin is apparently a product of Improved Battles, not Tactics. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dundee: "Given the nature of his [Pontifex's] dialogue, I believe the intention was to make the quest a parody of stereotypical AD&D adventures, hence no comprehensive background story." What do you mean? Lots of D&D stories have good backgrounds, or at least among the ones I've seen. In my opinion, backstory and subplot are always good, whether in a parody or not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill26: The Balor's Paralytic Gaze does allow a Saving Throw, which the party members can indeed make....although they're hardly likely to, at their given levels. Imoen's Belt grants immunity to it. I personally haven't noticed that the Horror they use allows no Save, but that may be because that party members using the "Standard Attack" AI will still attack Hostile creatures, even when Panicked. (Of course, this comes as no consolation when a Shadow Thief appears right in front of your face in the hallway leading to the Cambion, Panics half your party, and then after you've killed him two of your friends step on the Spike Trap and die.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dundee: I, myself, noticed Karamazov to have one of the FEMALE soundsets choosable for the PC during Character Creation--a trait shared by a great deal of the Tactics badguys. (Sneak around the Ritual and listen to them all say, "My casting has been interrupted." [img]smile.gif[/img] ) Are you sure you weren't just confusing that soundset with Imoen's? Yeah, I'd overlooked those Shadow Thieves in the very bottom corner of the map, and before I'd even finished reading your theorized explanation I came to the same conclusion: They were members of the first wave (Before "More intruders have entered the complex, Master"), and Jon simply sealed the Portal behind him in order to confine them to smaller area. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rataxes: "That 'invisibility ability with infinite castings' that the Shadow Thieves have, has name, it is Hide in Shadows. They're thieves, and so should naturally have it. What they have naturally isn't that exact ability, but it does a good job simulating it, and they can/will only use it when they step out of your sight, the same restriction imposed on the standard stealth ability." Normal Hide in Shadows can be dispelled by a Thief's Detect Illusions ability, but the Invisibility used by the Thieves in Improved Ilyich (and Shadow Thief Improvements, by the by) cannot. During my "cheat in the name of debugging" phase, I gave myself 150% in Detect Illusion, drank an Invisibilty Potion, and hung around some War Dogs for a while. Never saw a dang thing. Similarly, I CLUA'd Hemorrhoids a scroll of True Sight, stood out of sight of a nearby Shadow Thief, and read it. The Text Window went like this: Hemorrhoids- True Sight Shadow Thief- Invisibility Hemorrhoids- True Sight Shadow Thief- Invisibility Hemorrhoids- True Sight Shadow Thief- Invisibility.....etc. As for the Shadow Thieves being limited to only two "charges" on their Wand-abilities, you may be right--I've never seen them do it more than twice. But it's kind of ridiculous that killing a Shadow Thief the instant he appears (oh, if that were only possible) nets you the exact same Wand you would have gotten had you let him use it to his heart's content. Now, the enemies in the Shadow Thief Improvements MOD actually use their Wands, a trait that Weimer would do well to emulate if he continues in this vein. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gangrell: "That was a rather good review Six, as I do agree with most of what you wrote." Oh, you agree with it, so it must have been good? [img]tongue.gif[/img] "As for Kangaxx himself, unless you have spell immunity on, you are screwed because he has a near unlimited amount of Imprisonment spells as a innate ability." Since that was part of the original game, I'm not sure that's relevant to the Tactics MOD. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assassin: "Cast PfMW. CAst PfNM. Run up. Cast Sunfire. Toast Sahaguin." Okay, that could work, but that would be even slower than the Physical Mirror method. A Level 6 slot and at least 1 Level 5 slot for every single group of 4 Sahuagin? Dang. (And you wouldn't need the PfNM anyway.) "Oh, and I completely agree with the Wraith of Wrath. Incidentally, you could cast Time Stop off a scroll, then butcher him during it, however..." This is true, especially since Lich in the Docks means there are up to six scrolls of Time Stop potentially available by that time. Still, even with Nalia or Imoen going the Belm+Kundane+Imp.Haste route, that's going to require more than 1 scroll, especially if I'm correctly recalling that the Wraith has some hefty Resistance to Physical damage as well. ================================================== ============================ Whew! A lot of replies. I'm surprised they're all mostly positive, though--I hope Weimer doesn't think Ironworks is nothing more than "Jim, Dundee, Six....and their followers" or something like that. Good thing Kish is busy setting be straight on a few things over at Forgotten Wars. I've received a number of requests for info on the Tome of Retroactive Convenience. Here's the scoop: It is a custom item I made myself in IEEP. Whenever I start a new game, the very first thing I do is CLUA it into my Inventory, then place it in my Quickslot and use it. This does 3 things: 1) Applies the permanent stat bonuses earned through reading the Tomes in BG1 (+1 to STR, DEX, CON, INT, CHA, and +3 to WIS) 2) Sets the user's current EXP to 161,000 3) Creates the Golden Pantaloons in my Inventory. The Tome disappears upon use, of course. So far, the only way I've discovered in which it can be used unfairly (apart from the obvious ways, like giving it to an NPC, giving it to the PC more than once, or giving it to a character rolled in BG1 who has already used at least one of the Tomes) is giving it to a Dual-classed character: The ToRC sets the user's second class's EXP to 161,000, regardless of how much EXP is in the first class. So, theoretically, somebody could roll a Kensai, then immediately Dual-class to Mage, use the ToRC, and instantly gain 9 levels as a Mage and get their Kensai half back. I would suggest that, if you want to use the ToRC yourself, you should learn to use IEEP. That won't get you the ToRC any quicker, but I find IEEP to be extremely fun and useful, and using it is SO EASY. True. If you don't want to go that route, send me a request via Email ( sixospades@yahoo.com ), and I'll send it to you--but guess what, you're going to have to use IEEP anyway, to put the Item Name and Description on it. Ha Haaaaa. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [ 02-19-2004, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ] __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

02-19-2004, 01:48 AM	#26
Lord Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: June 3, 2003 Location: New York Age: 40 Posts: 3,302	I have my two cents to add in about some of this. The Improved Guarded Compound is supposed to be a pretty difficult battle. I managed to wipe every one out with a solo level 17 Assassin. Then I go and complete Trademeet, so I'm at a higher level. I decided to just go to Kangaxx and lift the coffin stuff and junk, but not actually go a fight him (I didn't have his arms and legs, anyways). But his guardians are just goddamn impossible. 2 liches, a dwarf that I'm pretty sure starts off with improved haste, a fighter that's not so remarkable, and then Djinns froms the liches summons. First off, at this point, I think I was at level 18, and I had 102 HP (wearing an Ioun stone that adds +10% to HP). I can't hide in the shadows since they're hostile in there, so I drink a potion of invisibility. Then I prepare to stand behind the dwarf, ready to make a backstab. However, the dwarf won't budge, and his back is to the wall. He only moves once he's got a target. So I go to the fighter to backstab, only to have a lich cast time stop and then trigger a continency of 2 or 3 ADHW. WTF is up with that? That's enough to take out Korgan after coming back from the Underdark. I reloaded over and over, and simply can't complete this fight. How is it that I can complete the Improved Guarded Compound, but not be able to complete the Improved Kangaxx Guardians? Weimer obviously didn't consider this when he made the guardians. What's more is that one of the liches always has ADHW ready to blow me away in a second. Doesn't sound right to me. __________________ "You're a thief and a liar." "No, I only lied about being a thief."

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02-19-2004, 02:26 AM	#27
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	? ADHWs in a Chain Contingency is a pretty standard tactic, and easily defended against too. You mentioned Tradesmeet. Have you obtained the Belt of Inertial Barrier? The only debatable hostile for Kangaxx's Guardians is the vorpal ability of the Dwarf.

02-19-2004, 03:00 AM	#30
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	Assuming good saves, x3 ADHWs in a CC and 50% Magic Damage Resistance. The average damage is 67.5 dmg. Your Assassin can more than survive it. Assuming the worst, the maximum damage with good saves, x3 ADHWs and 50% MD Resistance is 120 dmg. A level 17 Assassin with at least 16 CON will have 88HP. So yeah, it then becomes a problem. However... since you are soloing, you can always come back later with more HP and UAI (which will enable you to drink Potions of Heroism and Potion of Magic Shielding, granting you more HP and immunity to Magic Damage).

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