Garrick

Little Dragon · 04-11-2002, 10:37 AM

Is a must have. Get garrick he can do spells, use crossbow of speed. And he doesn't need an I.D speel cause he already knows what things are just give unknow items to him and right click on them and they turn to known items.

Midget Gems · 04-11-2002, 02:08 PM

Ok, so bards are one of the weakest classes in BG1 and Garrick is not even a good bard.
His stats could be better. Having said that I have used him in several of my parties because I prefer to play with interesting NPC's rather than strong NPC's

IMHO the only good thing about Garrick is he can use a wand, but having said that I never use wands - to cheesey

[ 04-13-2002, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: Midget Gems ]

SixOfSpades · 04-11-2002, 09:21 PM

The good thing about Garrick is that he's better than Eldoth.

Yeah, I think that's it. I'd rather have Faldorn than him. Bards actually become halfway decent in BG2, but in BG1 they're pathetic.

Ar-Cunin · 04-13-2002, 08:30 AM

Bards aren't pathetic in Bg1 - they are versatile - just as Little Dragon pointed out

Lioness · 04-14-2002, 08:19 AM

BArda have high lore, their one main advantage. They can be decent number 3 or 4 fighters, and ok bowmen if you work ont hat. But they don't have the strength for an up front fighter or the spells for a wizard, until BG2. Then, get Haer'Dalis. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Midget Gems · 04-15-2002, 01:56 PM

Don't get me wrong, I only said Bards are weak. The problem with someone like Garrick is that he is very vulnerable in the early part of the game and his magic doesn't develop until he reaches higher levels. Still 'Bard' is an interesting choice for your main character, that way you can give him/her good stats and avoid some of the early weaknesses.

Just for the record I checked through some of my saved games to see how successful my Bards had been. I found that the percentage of the total experience gained had been about 15%, which is more than I get from the Cleric, Mage and Thief classes. I guess this reflects the power of the longbow because this is the weapon I usually give to a Bard (or a cross-bow if you prefer).

To prove a point I picked a fight with a high level bard - and lost! The guy in question was Borda, the NPC who tries to sell you fake potions and scrolls, and I'm pretty sure he's a Bard (anyone confirm this?) Anyway my level 3 party couldn't get through his Mirror Image and Magic Resistance without someone getting zapped. It took me 5 or 6 reloads before I beat him and that was just luck. It shows you what a Bard can do once he has gained enough levels.

So don't jump to conclusions - you can play a Bard as long as you play smart. As for 'Brave Sir Garrick' he's not too brave until he has some magic protection to boost his courage.

Daniel · 04-15-2002, 04:46 PM

I've never been to over keen with bards, in my opinion they are just over glorified Fighter/Mage/Thieves the only difference is the bard song and high lore value

NihilisticCrusader · 04-15-2002, 05:04 PM

Bards aren't even thieves. They can only pickpocket, and pickpocketing is almost useless. A simple Fighter/Mage would be better. You could use crossbows and stuff anyway, and your spells would be much, much better (especially if you make it a F/Illusionist)

SixOfSpades · 04-15-2002, 10:13 PM

A few months ago, I posted a study comparing the best Bard I'd ever rolled with the best Mage/Thief (Elven, naturally) I'd rolled, both at the EXP cap for ToSC, and both with the best equipment that you would give to an NPC of each class. The Mage/Thief won by a mile. The Bard had about 15% more hitpoints, and had like 1 better THAC0 and maybe 2 better AC. Everything else was Mage/Thief all the way.

People say Bards are great for their versatility. Really? The Mage/Thief was able to reach 100% in Stealth, Pick Locks, AND Pick Pockets, not to mention being able to cast spells without stripping naked in the middle of a fight.

Thankfully, BG2 finally provides us with Elven Chain Mail, which allows the wearer to cast Wizard spells. Unfortunately, we also learn that Bards can't learn any spells past Spell Level 6, a handicap that does not apply to the Mage/Thief--who can also wear the Elven Chain Mail himself.

It's been my experience that when game designers give such a relatively weak ability as high Lore to a class, it's because they're trying to offset the class's obvious drawbacks.

I made my decision long ago:
Powergamers avoid Bards like the plague, if only to avoid their loser cooties.
Roleplayers don't mind taking on a Bard, but only if he or she's an interesting character--and even then they wouldn't have more than one at a time.

Little Dragon · 04-18-2002, 09:08 AM

my thief has shadow armor. If i make her into mage/thief can she still cast spells while wtill wearing armor

04-11-2002, 02:08 PM	#2
Midget Gems Avatar Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 34 Posts: 568	Ok, so bards are one of the weakest classes in BG1 and Garrick is not even a good bard. His stats could be better. Having said that I have used him in several of my parties because I prefer to play with interesting NPC's rather than strong NPC's IMHO the only good thing about Garrick is he can use a wand, but having said that I never use wands - to cheesey [ 04-13-2002, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: Midget Gems ] __________________ Midget Gems - Heroes in their own lunch time and creator of the Suicidal Gnomes.

04-11-2002, 09:21 PM	#3
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 48 Posts: 6,901	The good thing about Garrick is that he's better than Eldoth. Yeah, I think that's it. I'd rather have Faldorn than him. Bards actually become halfway decent in BG2, but in BG1 they're pathetic. __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

04-13-2002, 08:30 AM	#4
Ar-Cunin Ra Join Date: August 14, 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Age: 54 Posts: 2,326	Bards aren't pathetic in Bg1 - they are versatile - just as Little Dragon pointed out __________________ Life is a laugh <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[biglaugh]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/biglaugh.gif\" /> - and DEATH is the final joke <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[hehe]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/hehe.gif\" />

04-14-2002, 08:19 AM	#5
Lioness Jack Burton Join Date: June 3, 2001 Location: Among the Stars Age: 37 Posts: 5,837	BArda have high lore, their one main advantage. They can be decent number 3 or 4 fighters, and ok bowmen if you work ont hat. But they don't have the strength for an up front fighter or the spells for a wizard, until BG2. Then, get Haer'Dalis. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ [img]\"ubb/noncgi/smiles/lioness1.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /> <br /><br />Premier Waitress/Smacker of Cloudy\'s Cafe<br /><br />\"the only people for me are the mad ones...\"

04-15-2002, 01:56 PM	#6
Midget Gems Avatar Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 34 Posts: 568	Don't get me wrong, I only said Bards are weak. The problem with someone like Garrick is that he is very vulnerable in the early part of the game and his magic doesn't develop until he reaches higher levels. Still 'Bard' is an interesting choice for your main character, that way you can give him/her good stats and avoid some of the early weaknesses. Just for the record I checked through some of my saved games to see how successful my Bards had been. I found that the percentage of the total experience gained had been about 15%, which is more than I get from the Cleric, Mage and Thief classes. I guess this reflects the power of the longbow because this is the weapon I usually give to a Bard (or a cross-bow if you prefer). To prove a point I picked a fight with a high level bard - and lost! The guy in question was Borda, the NPC who tries to sell you fake potions and scrolls, and I'm pretty sure he's a Bard (anyone confirm this?) Anyway my level 3 party couldn't get through his Mirror Image and Magic Resistance without someone getting zapped. It took me 5 or 6 reloads before I beat him and that was just luck. It shows you what a Bard can do once he has gained enough levels. So don't jump to conclusions - you can play a Bard as long as you play smart. As for 'Brave Sir Garrick' he's not too brave until he has some magic protection to boost his courage. __________________ Midget Gems - Heroes in their own lunch time and creator of the Suicidal Gnomes.

04-11-2002, 10:37 AM	#1
Little Dragon The Magister Join Date: May 31, 2001 Location: England Posts: 137	Is a must have. Get garrick he can do spells, use crossbow of speed. And he doesn't need an I.D speel cause he already knows what things are just give unknow items to him and right click on them and they turn to known items.

04-15-2002, 04:46 PM	#7
Daniel Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 24, 2002 Location: England Age: 42 Posts: 1,203	I've never been to over keen with bards, in my opinion they are just over glorified Fighter/Mage/Thieves the only difference is the bard song and high lore value

04-15-2002, 05:04 PM	#8
NihilisticCrusader Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: March 27, 2002 Location: South Florida Age: 38 Posts: 29	Bards aren't even thieves. They can only pickpocket, and pickpocketing is almost useless. A simple Fighter/Mage would be better. You could use crossbows and stuff anyway, and your spells would be much, much better (especially if you make it a F/Illusionist) __________________ When layer lies upon layer, webs of deception are spun inside one another, and you can no longer distinguish fact from fiction, reality is what you make of it.

04-15-2002, 10:13 PM	#9
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 48 Posts: 6,901	A few months ago, I posted a study comparing the best Bard I'd ever rolled with the best Mage/Thief (Elven, naturally) I'd rolled, both at the EXP cap for ToSC, and both with the best equipment that you would give to an NPC of each class. The Mage/Thief won by a mile. The Bard had about 15% more hitpoints, and had like 1 better THAC0 and maybe 2 better AC. Everything else was Mage/Thief all the way. People say Bards are great for their versatility. Really? The Mage/Thief was able to reach 100% in Stealth, Pick Locks, AND Pick Pockets, not to mention being able to cast spells without stripping naked in the middle of a fight. Thankfully, BG2 finally provides us with Elven Chain Mail, which allows the wearer to cast Wizard spells. Unfortunately, we also learn that Bards can't learn any spells past Spell Level 6, a handicap that does not apply to the Mage/Thief--who can also wear the Elven Chain Mail himself. It's been my experience that when game designers give such a relatively weak ability as high Lore to a class, it's because they're trying to offset the class's obvious drawbacks. I made my decision long ago: Powergamers avoid Bards like the plague, if only to avoid their loser cooties. Roleplayers don't mind taking on a Bard, but only if he or she's an interesting character--and even then they wouldn't have more than one at a time. __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

04-18-2002, 09:08 AM	#10
Little Dragon The Magister Join Date: May 31, 2001 Location: England Posts: 137	my thief has shadow armor. If i make her into mage/thief can she still cast spells while wtill wearing armor

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