Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)

[robertthebard]

Originally Posted by Froberg Baldurs Gate, particularly #2, rules all. Period. What I want to see is a total-conversion project where all content from BG2 is ported in to the Dragon Age engine. THAT, would be something to see! For my money, I loved DA, and bought all content and expansions for it. I also loved Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 more so. Mass Effect 2 got rid of a lot of annoyances that were present in ME1. The only lack was not enough side-quests and that you weren't able to wander about in as-large areas. The graphical quality is excellent, however, I wonder why DA did not get the same graphics quality. It seems out-dated out of the box, only graphical improvement mods were able to fix this to some degree. NWN I never cared for it all.. too much; "You start here. Go to all four possible directions, and kill everything. Return and port to a new area and repeat." As for KOTOR, I enjoyed that quite a bit, despite being horribly disappointed by the SW franchise lately. KOTOR2 was rushed and incomplete, and just not acceptable. MMO's don't appeal to me at all, so I won't be playing the new one. I have just preordered DA2 as well as The Witcher 2. I think I will enjoy TW2 more.

In all fairness to NWN's, the campaign was a demo of what you could do with the toolset. NWN"s shined online in user created modules.

Originally Posted by WOLFGIR I think that Dragon Age 2 is a nice game - though it is for certain not a Dragon Age 2. I think that many games today are made with the intention of being something new - but few dares to rely on their ideas so they try to sell it to an already worked up crowd and simply mashes a 2 or 3 behind a common name and then changes too much for people to sit well with.

The thing I'm picking up on most about DA 2 is that it's not supposed to be a sequel, per se. They have created their own world, and they are attempting to flesh it out. How well they do remains to be seen, but going in expecting to "pick up where you left off" will leave some disappointed for sure.

Somebody commented on the hype that was "spiritual successor to BG". Although nothing will ever grab me the way BG did, they did hit it with char/NPC interactions. In the months following the initial release, people were getting upset if you didn't like Alistair, or like Morrigan, etc etc. I'm talking full scale flame wars. I think I was the president of the "He man Alistair haters club" for a while. I was also the inventor of the self replenishing box of kleenex especially for Alistair. Any time people can get that emotionally invested in the NPC's, somebody did something right.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by robertthebard Any time people can get that emotionally invested in the NPC's, somebody did something right.

I dunno, I think there's more to good characters than the ability to generate hate and disdain. The problem here is, bad characters tend to do that too. And more often.

Like, I hate Lana Lang in Smallville, not because she is a good character, or because they fleshed her out - but because I hate her. Same with Lex Luthor.
I was so happy when they were removed from the cast, and never once thought "Oh I wish Lana or Lex came back". I was so sick and tired of seeing them that anything else would be a breath of fresh air. If there was anything to justify my investment in said hatred, it was Smallville and the Superman franchise - but not these characters, I wanted them gone.

[robertthebard]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior I dunno, I think there's more to good characters than the ability to generate hate and disdain. The problem here is, bad characters tend to do that too. And more often. Like, I hate Lana Lang in Smallville, not because she is a good character, or because they fleshed her out - but because I hate her. Same with Lex Luthor. I was so happy when they were removed from the cast, and never once thought "Oh I wish Lana or Lex came back". I was so sick and tired of seeing them that anything else would be a breath of fresh air. If there was anything to justify my investment in said hatred, it was Smallville and the Superman franchise - but not these characters, I wanted them gone.

There are, however, people that would disagree with you. I'm not a big follower of either Smallville, or Superman in general. However, in the example I gave above, there were very heated debates between people that hated Alistair, for example here, and people that didn't. It's not that I disliked Alistair as a character, but more that I didn't like him as a person. I found him to be whiney, deceitful and childish. These are not traits that I would commonly assign to a character in a video game. These traits were brought home to me in a female PC run through, where, after his deceit about his lineage was revealed, he laid the blame on my character's feet, instead of owning it himself. The disdain that I held for him then holds true to this day, while I'm goofing off playing at DA: O again until I can get DA 2.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by robertthebard There are, however, people that would disagree with you. I'm not a big follower of either Smallville, or Superman in general. However, in the example I gave above, there were very heated debates between people that hated Alistair, for example here, and people that didn't. It's not that I disliked Alistair as a character, but more that I didn't like him as a person. I found him to be whiney, deceitful and childish. These are not traits that I would commonly assign to a character in a video game. These traits were brought home to me in a female PC run through, where, after his deceit about his lineage was revealed, he laid the blame on my character's feet, instead of owning it himself. The disdain that I held for him then holds true to this day, while I'm goofing off playing at DA: O again until I can get DA 2.

So basically, there are people who hate him because he "betrayed" them in-game. As in, if he had not done this, they would still like him. Yeah, they are fans of him - sometimes known as fanboys. They like to hate him and are very into it etc. But, then there are people who just think he is a shitty character and has no business in a game, like me. People who feel the game would be better without him.

This is the distinction here. To say that the latter group of people deep-down actually like this character and that this speaks about how interesting and depthful he is, would not be true. They are not fans complaining about a twist in the plot. They are enemies.

It reminds me of that whole team Edward vs. team Taylor thing in Twilight. Teen girls arguing about who they love and hate, yet given the choice, they would not remove either because that's what makes the movie. They just a chance to talk about the characters and debate whether a vampite or wolf would be their dream date. (Personally, i'd slay them both and be done with it).

[robertthebard]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior So basically, there are people who hate him because he "betrayed" them in-game. As in, if he had not done this, they would still like him. Yeah, they are fans of him - sometimes known as fanboys. They like to hate him and are very into it etc. But, then there are people who just think he is a shitty character and has no business in a game, like me. People who feel the game would be better without him. This is the distinction here. To say that the latter group of people deep-down actually like this character and that this speaks about how interesting and depthful he is, would not be true. They are not fans complaining about a twist in the plot. They are enemies. It reminds me of that whole team Edward vs. team Taylor thing in Twilight. Teen girls arguing about who they love and hate, yet given the choice, they would not remove either because that's what makes the movie. They just a chance to talk about the characters and debate whether a vampite or wolf would be their dream date. (Personally, i'd slay them both and be done with it).

I think the distinction that I'm trying to make here is, simply: I liked him as a character. For what he was, he was well written, I just didn't like who he was written to be. This gets us way off topic, but the NPC's had depth, and could trigger intense emotional responses. In this, they did a fine job of successoring(made up words ftw)BG. Let's face it however, BG will be imitated, but it will never be duplicated. The concept was fresh, at the time, and well done. So well done that anyone that ever truly loved it will never be able to be as happy with another game.

The difference between BG and DA et al is that in BG there was one story to tell, and in DA, there are a lot of stories that they want to tell. The complaint that I have seen the most about the DA Universe is that you're not the main char you were in the last installment. The comparison to Mass Effect ends there, since it's all one guy/gal.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by robertthebard I think the distinction that I'm trying to make here is, simply: I liked him as a character. For what he was, he was well written, I just didn't like who he was written to be. This gets us way off topic, but the NPC's had depth, and could trigger intense emotional responses. In this, they did a fine job of successoring(made up words ftw)BG. Let's face it however, BG will be imitated, but it will never be duplicated. The concept was fresh, at the time, and well done. So well done that anyone that ever truly loved it will never be able to be as happy with another game.

Yep, I got that.

[Greything]

So, I finally got DA2 and played it through.

I have to say I found it disappointing.

So many quests around a short main plot, being forced towards taking two handed fighter as best survival option (really, how come a dual -wielding fighter is not available?) and I never felt I had full control of the conflicts.

On that last, that may be a problem with my PC or my understanding of the game system. I never felt I could get a decent overview or set up tactics as well as as in DA Origins.

Perhaps, sometime, someone will take the game engine and build a decent plot and character options around it.

I live in hope.

[Kyrvias]

Judging from the replies in this thread, I can only assume DA 2 was worth the ticket price. I think I'll just have to pick it up now!

Can't honestly say how relieved I am to be proven wrong from the initial OP!