Thor and Cap - Marvel movies incoming this year

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek You are right that there really is NO difference between Colossus and Thing, or Iceman and the Human Torch, except those born with mutant powers are inexplicably considered inherently more "dangerous" than those who get saturated by cosmic rays or splashed with toxic waste.

But there's no real reason given as to why they're more dangerous. Mutant is not contagious. Nobody in the general public know whether Spiderman is a mutant or not (i.e. was he born that way or did he somehow become that way?). Yet nobody seems to care. You'd think that after the whole mutant hysteria took over in the wake of the X-Men, they'd say "Well, we didn't know what that spider-freak was until now - but now we know he's a filthy mutant, let's hunt him!". No such luck. Parker lives out the rest of his days in his NY apartment, never having to hide or run from the government the way Charles and those kids do. They somehow quietly seperate Spidey from all that, when really, it would be the most obvious thing to point out.

And there is nothing more or less dangerous about mutants vs. super-powered beings. The only thing that's different is whether they were born that way. If a mutant has kids it will likely inherit the gene, but the same goes for metahumans like Spidey. I remember during the Onslaught saga, Peter's child was scanned by a sentinel when it saw MJ, and it was revealed to be a metahuman child. Basically, Spiderman fathered a mutant because when the spider bit him, it made him one.

The only logical explanation is that Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, et al used the X-Men as a way of addressing bigotry and prejudice, trying to teach future generations (if you will) that others are not "bad" just because they are different from us.

Well, there just seems to be a different tone to FF, bestowed by Lee and the early writers. While Spiderman and the X-Men were struggling with earthly issues like fitting into scoiety and graduating highschool, the FF are off fighting Skrulls or Galactus. I guess that in order for them to do the whole cosmic battle thing unhindered, he had to "let them off the hook" and not burden them with the problems of neighbouring superheroes. The only issue for me is that it makes for a glaring double-standard, like you say. It just doesn't seem believable how similiar the FF's powers are to the X-Men (there are even X-Men who can strecth like Reed), yet they get a complete pass on the whole "You're a freak" trend.

I don't think the FantastiCar is any more "campy" than the Batmobile myself. While the special armor, weapons and advanced technology were explained easily enough in the new series, the ability for the humvee to spontaneously "jump" over chasms or rivers also required stretching the imagination just a bit, IMO.

Really? The Batmobile wasn't invented by Batman for starters. It was a car that he invested heavily into modifying. And Bruce Wayne didn't take credit for inventing the automobile. Richards basically invented a flying buggy for 4 people. In the recent movies, they do another take on the Batmobile to make it more believable; It was a military prototype that never took off. If they did something like this to at least normalize it somewhat, I could accept it. Look at the X-Men's Blackbird. It's a jet. But they don't try to claim Xavier invented the plane. I can buy the fact that mutants somehow got their hands on a fighter jet because it's handled with care. IIRC someone even exclaims "You have a jet!" or something, to emphasize the fact that this is quite a feat. Then, the government guys have pictures of the jet coming up from the ground and express grave concern about it. But nobody is concerned that 4 mutants have a buggy that can fly..?

In the FF movie, Richards pretty much pulls the thing out of nowhere, proclaims that he's been working on it with a grind, and it works flawlessly. I dunno, it's just not handled as realistically as it could be. Thus the whole campy aspect to it. "Jump in my flying car and let's go!". All they need now is an equally corny motto as they take off.

Oh...and Reed Richards probably COULD create the Iron Man armor on his lunch break because his IQ IS that much higher than Tony Stark's. That is one reason a lot of the things associated with the FF are explained by saying "Reed Richards is a genius".

But see they don't sell it as belieavable in the context. I am aware of how smart the character is supposed to be, but they need to retcon his IQ back or something to fill in the holes. They've done it before with his storyline and background. If he is indeed so amazing, then it stands to reason he should have solved the many burning issues that plague society. He could save thousands of lives just by thinking up solutions and inventions at home, instead of being off in a space-buggy with the Human Torch. or, do like most braniacs do, and join a think-tank.
In contrast, look at Charles Xavier. His intellect is accepted as being on genius level, but it's tempered and normalized. Same with Beast. I don't think Stark is as smart, but has an aptitude for all things tech and business. Reed apparently could undo the world with his brain. If so, let's see him fix it then.

[Cerek]

I have to agree with everything you say about the double standard, especially in regards to the FF.

Johnny Storm is a "hot-head" (literally). He is also reckless and impulsive. He can attain the same heat as a star going supernova, which would literally burn the very air around him, yet that isn't considered "dangerous" in the Marvel Universe. If ANYBODY deserved to be monitored and/or locked away, you would think a guy who could burn down an entire city would be near the top of the list.

Kitty Pride might be able to walk through walls, but Sue Storm can go anywhere unseen (well, not sure if her invisibility extends into the thermal spectrum), so again, it would seem she presents at least the same level of risk, if not far more. There counter both of their powers....motion detector sensors could be used to track Sue (this concept was used in the movie Hollow Man) and buildings could be built with "energy barriers" inside the walls to stop ShadowCat (Harpoon very nearly killed her with one of his energy spears while she was phasing).

Of course, Sue Storm can do more than just turn invisible, she can also create and project force fields, invisible "bubbles" that can be "hurled" as weapons, etc. She even threatened Doom one time that she could bypass ALL of the vaunted defenses in his armor and kill him very painfully by creating air bubbles in his bloodstream. If Doc Doom can't think of a way to block an attack like that, our government certainly couldn't either.

You're also right that Spiderman eventually gets a "pass" on his existence and actions, but I think that is only after years of proving he is on the side of "good and righteousness".

One possible explanation for the fear surrounding mutants (in general) and the X-Men (in particular) is the fact they HAVE remained fairly secluded and isolated from the general population rather than being out in the open. The only ones that have openly displayed their powers regularly are Magneto and his Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. People fear what they don't know, so it is at least somewhat logical that fear would extend to mutants as well.

Another reason mutation is different than cosmic rays or radioactive spiders is because that can affect ANYONE. Homo sapien parents can always try to keep their kids away from such external dangers, but there is no way to prevent them from inheriting or developing a mutant gene, so in effect, "mutant-ism" could be considered "contagious" by the general population.

One strange thing is that this fear and distrust even extended to other superheroes, specifically Johnny Storm and some others. Marvel played this up waaaaaaay back in the early 80's with the original "Secret Wars" mini-series.

In case you aren't familiar with it, a powerful being known as the "Beyonder" created a world (using bits and pieces of several others), then transported several heroes and villains onto the world to fight against each other. Even the superheroes (which included the Aveners, FF, Spiderman and Hulk among others) viewed the X-Men with cautious suspicion.

As the story evolves, the heroes find an alien village that has a healer in it. She can heal wounds simply by laying on hands. After Colossus was badly injured in a battle with the bad guys, he is brought to the healer for help. Human Torch says "Do you think she really help him..I mean...since he's a mutant and all." James Rhodes is wearing the Iron Man armor at this time and he says something like "Let me get this straight; the dude that can burst into flames over his whole body is worried that some alien chick from the planet Mombo can't heal this guy because he is a mutant?!? Really? Thank God he ain't black too, huh?"

The outburst naturally shows Johnny just how ridiculous his statement was and - perhaps - was Stan Lee's way of saying "Yeah, I know it doesn't really make sense, but it is what it is."

[SpiritWarrior]

Yeah, I know of the Secret Wars saga via the Spiderman plot, as that is when he first acquired the symbiote that later became Venom. Funnily enough, it was Reed with all his genius who studied it with Pete and told him about it's vulnerabilities to sound and heat. I don't recall that convo happening though - I have an annual somewhere of Secret Wars 1 and 2, so I may dig it out from curiosity. Would be nice to see that they were tackling the issue at least somewhat.

I'd go with the second explanation about people being phobic of mutants. Although, it is still a glaring contrast to me, since people have been surronded by "freaks" all this time before simply naming them mutants instead. But oh well, I'll let sleeping dogs lie with this one.

Of course, X-Men fans don't shut up about the upcoming X-Men: First Class. I think going backward was a good idea.

[robertthebard]

Really though, Parker gets a pass because, at the end of the day, very few people know he's Spiderman. With the X-Men, and the FF, there's no secret identity to hide behind. In the comics and the movie, when Parker gives up Spiderman, he simply throws it away. Although, frankly, he can't really do that since the changes are at the genetic level, the public perception of Spiderman is no more, even if they're standing next to him on the subway.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by robertthebard Really though, Parker gets a pass because, at the end of the day, very few people know he's Spiderman. With the X-Men, and the FF, there's no secret identity to hide behind. In the comics and the movie, when Parker gives up Spiderman, he simply throws it away. Although, frankly, he can't really do that since the changes are at the genetic level, the public perception of Spiderman is no more, even if they're standing next to him on the subway.

Well the FF are totally "out" to the public - that's why they don't wear masks. But the X-Men wear masked costumes to conceal their identity because again, for reasons I have cited above, the FF have no qualms about being "freaks" the way the X-Men do. Again, a glaring contrast, but fine, okay.

But the X-Men could do what you said too (and have done, many times in the comics). They can just as easily "give up" being superheroes the same way Spiderman does - by choosing to throw away their personas and never use their powers again. When in public, Cyclops wears ruby shades to control his eyes, Storm wears normal clothes, Iceman goes to college etc. They act like normal people and have dual identities.

The problem for some mutants is that their physical chracteristics are mutated, so they are forced into indefinate hiding (Beast). Some mutants are so freakish looking they have to live in the sewers because they frighten people (The Morlocks). These are the real "freaks" that incite fear and hatred and need to worry about being hunted. But again, Thing from FF should be part of the Morlocks, yet he's fine. I dunno.

[Sparhawk]

I see a lot of talk about Thor, Cap and Avengers - and even the green underwearboy with the lantern...but I would like to direct your attention to THIS.....I think this will probably be the highlight of the superhero year 2011 will be for us all.

[SpiritWarrior]

Not sure. X-Men 3 and Wolverine were so-so, which I think is why there isn't as much hypse as you'd expect. Like I said above though, I think going backward was a good idea because it is a throwback to the earlier days of the X-Men.

[Timber Loftis]

Blame my low standards I guess but I liked all these movies. Some call Spider Man a bit campy, but I really like them all. They were excellently cast from the very beginning. So what if some hoverboards look like snowboards, they're cool.

And I can take these movies at their own merit without insisting they remain absolutely true to the comics. Heck, the comics don't even remain true to themselves and have fairly regular reboots. GI Joe wasn't a crappy movie because it lacked correlation with the comics, it was just crappy in itself as a movie.

And, using the movies alone, I can't see anywhere in Spider Man any reference to the greater Marvel world, so as far as I'm concerned in that world there is no Iron Man. Now the Iron Man movies are different -- they are directly cross-referencing each other to incorporate SHIELD, Iron Man, Thor, etc. into the same universe.

Oh, and I liked Wolverine quite a lot. I loved how it began especially, with the historical battles montage and stuff.

[SpiritWarrior]

Nor would you find any reference of other superheroes in the Daredevil, Punisher, Blade, Hulk or X-Men movies. The reason Iron Man, Thor and Cap are referencing each other (and still only ever-so-slightly ala Nick Fury and some tiny easter eggs), is out of necessity as they line these characters up for the upcoming Avengers movie which they all play a role in.

Not sure where hoverboards appeared looking like snowboards?

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Not sure where hoverboards appeared looking like snowboards?

Spiderman 3. Harry Osborne rode a hoverboard.