Haven't been here in a while...

[uk_john]

And to see that Dragon Age has a thread on this site is truly depressing (same with Starcraft 2!). It could have been worse though, it could have had an Alpha Protocol thread as well!

Dragon Age, by any standard of any cRPG on this site, is no CRPG! It's is linear, despite being well disguised, and it has no sandbox non linear world to explore and find quests in, like any standard cRPG! With talk of Dragon 2 losing most of it's RPG elements, I think it was very short-sighted to put this thread up and not cover a cRPG like like The Witcher, or the Gothic series or even Drakensang or Space Rangers 2 all are much more cRPG's than Dragon Age and Starcraft, and I thought that's what this site was about!

I have a new schedule and was planning to come more often. But I have said what had to be said for the cRPG's that have been on this site for a while now. None of the new titles interest me in the slightest as they are not cRPG's!

[ElfBane]

You may wish to PM Ziroc your concerns. I'm sure he would appreciate this tirade.

That being said, you are right that the site is dying. Not sure what can be done about that, but bear in mind that Ziroc is not in good health and probably can't devote as much time to this site as he would like... especially since he doesn't seem to make any money off of it.

[uk_john]

Well, for example, if I had come here and saw a thriving Witcher thread, I would have mentioned it it my visits to GOG.com as well as the official forums. In fact, everyone and their dog is covering Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, covering something like the Witcher or the Gothic series would actually have made the site stand out. Just like it did for me as the only site that was really covering W&W back in the day!

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by uk_john Well, for example, if I had come here and saw a thriving Witcher thread, I would have mentioned it it my visits to GOG.com as well as the official forums. In fact, everyone and their dog is covering Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, covering something like the Witcher or the Gothic series would actually have made the site stand out. Just like it did for me as the only site that was really covering W&W back in the day!

I agree with you about DA, it is very linear and adopted the WoW trend and failed because it was implemented into a single-player game rather than an MMO.

I don't think It's blasphemy to have a forum about it though. So sue us, we hoped DA would be "the spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate". Actually, they told us it would be. For me it was not, unfortunately. But chill, as interest in the DA forum wanes, it will be removed, like other game forums.

While you are ranting about the CRPG's that should NOT be on here, I would love to hear about the ones that SHOULD be. Because for the life of me, I can't find any. PC gaming is dying and certainly owes much of It's current life to Blizzard (makers of Starcraft) as their games create the need to own a gaming PC. The other company holding up the coffin are EA with their Sims franchise (who, concidentally, bought Bioware so are responsible for DA too). Other than this, there is nothing exclusive to the PC that I can't now get on a console.

[uk_john]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior I agree with you about DA, it is very linear and adopted the WoW trend and failed because it was implemented into a single-player game rather than an MMO. I don't think It's blasphemy to have a forum about it though. So sue us, we hoped DA would be "the spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate". Actually, they told us it would be. For me it was not, unfortunately. But chill, as interest in the DA forum wanes, it will be removed, like other game forums. While you are ranting about the CRPG's that should NOT be on here, I would love to hear about the ones that SHOULD be. Because for the life of me, I can't find any. PC gaming is dying and certainly owes much of It's current life to Blizzard (makers of Starcraft) as their games create the need to own a gaming PC. The other company holding up the coffin are EA with their Sims franchise (who, concidentally, bought Bioware so are responsible for DA too). Other than this, there is nothing exclusive to the PC that I can't now get on a console.

It's Blizzard with a single player game every 10 years ala Starcraft 2 that is saving the PC market? How does one PC game every decade allow a market to continue? And as many units as The Sims sell, it's still only one title!

What you're ignoring is what everybody in the U.S. is ignoring - the European developers/publishers! PC only titles like STALKER, that sell as many copies on PC as Dragon Age did on PC, or Bioshock did on PC! PC only titles like The Witcher that is more of a follow up to Baldur's Gate as a cRPG than Dragon Age could ever be!

Then you have all the other European PC titles, that are either only PC or produced on pc then converted to console. PC Games like Metro 2033 and Star Wolves. Then we have all the 'old school PC cRPG's that come out of Europe: Like The Gothic series, Drakensang, Space Rangers 2, The Sacred series, the Divinity series, Arx Fatalis, the Silverall series, Risen and Two Worlds. All his has been released in the last 3-4 years. What have we had from the U.S. side. Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Dragon Age and Alpha Protocol. All multiformat and all much more action based than the European cRPG's which are much more old school!

If sites like this aren't going to support PC cRPG's like the Witcher and instead are going to sell ou to the non CRPG's that are Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, it just isn't going to be around for long, because what keeps these sites going is it's specialization. I know I found it as it was THE site to get info on Wizards and Warriors. It would not even occur to me to come here for Starcraft 2 or Dragon Age!

To this day, if you google Wizard's and Warriors, you will get this site near the top. But for Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, this site would be on page 177!

When I fist came to this site, it was obvious it was a hardcore cPRG site. Now I don't know what it is - and on that basis, why would anyone new find themselves here?

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by uk_john It's Blizzard with a single player game every 10 years ala Starcraft 2 that is saving the PC market? How does one PC game every decade allow a market to continue? And as many units as The Sims sell, it's still only one title! What you're ignoring is what everybody in the U.S. is ignoring - the European developers/publishers! PC only titles like STALKER, that sell as many copies on PC as Dragon Age did on PC, or Bioshock did on PC! PC only titles like The Witcher that is more of a follow up to Baldur's Gate as a cRPG than Dragon Age could ever be! Then you have all the other European PC titles, that are either only PC or produced on pc then converted to console. PC Games like Metro 2033 and Star Wolves. Then we have all the 'old school PC cRPG's that come out of Europe: Like The Gothic series, Drakensang, Space Rangers 2, The Sacred series, the Divinity series, Arx Fatalis, the Silverall series, Risen and Two Worlds. All his has been released in the last 3-4 years. What have we had from the U.S. side. Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Dragon Age and Alpha Protocol. All multiformat and all much more action based than the European cRPG's which are much more old school! If sites like this aren't going to support PC cRPG's like the Witcher and instead are going to sell ou to the non CRPG's that are Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, it just isn't going to be around for long, because what keeps these sites going is it's specialization. I know I found it as it was THE site to get info on Wizards and Warriors. It would not even occur to me to come here for Starcraft 2 or Dragon Age! To this day, if you google Wizard's and Warriors, you will get this site near the top. But for Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, this site would be on page 177! When I fist came to this site, it was obvious it was a hardcore cPRG site. Now I don't know what it is - and on that basis, why would anyone new find themselves here?

No, Blizzard is currently holding up the PC market almost by itself. Their PC franchises include, Starcraft 1 and 2, Diablo 1, 2 and (soon) 3. Warcraft 1,2,3 and of course, World of Warcraft with its 3 expansions. WoW itself gives a very many casual gamers their only reason to even own a PC. There was an article released a few years back, I think I posted it here, at how struggling PC sales received like a 50% boost due to WoW alone during a fiscal year.

EA with their Sims franchise, also dominate the market. The Sims was the best selling PC game of all time...you do know that? The franchise continues, with 3 expansions to the Sims 3 and the Sims 2 still fighting strong with its, what, 8 expansions or something? That still sells to this day.

Go into any department store and you will see the PC shelves are monopolized by these 2 gaming giants. They have multiple shelves devoted to them. As for the other less-known titles, they're stacked together on some shelf off to the side almost as an afterthought, where you can find games like Risen and maybe Halo on PC.

I am not sure what the issue is. I don't like it anymore than the next person, but the truth is PC gaming is dying and would be even worse off if not for these last few companies carrying the torch. Gamestop and EBgames no longer focus on PC games anymore. IIRC, Ziroc even posted an article about it one time, asking people to boycott one of the companies because they were pahsing out PC games. They may or may not have a shelf in their stores devoted to the PC. If they do, I notice the games are stacked like books in a library to conserve space, as opposed to the console titles that face out. The exception to this at the moment, at my local Gamestop was the fanfare and posters that met the release of WoW: Cataclysm. They had a midnight opening, games, posters, free stuff etc. The only PC game they deemed noteworthy. A shame, but true.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but you seem to be saying there are not enough forums about obscure PC games that nobody plays anymore. See, if one is created, nobody but you will use it. It's been tried before. Check out the Miscellanous CRPG forum - there's a thread about Risen there. Do you honestly think that thread generated so much attention as to deserve a whole forum? I don't. If one was created maybe 3 or four posts would be made and that's it. Hardly warrants a place of its own (anyways, imo that game was lacking, I played it for a few hours). There was a forum about Elder Scrolls - no interest so poof. Take that Darkstone forum as another example, the last post was almost 3 years ago.

[Kakero]

Originally Posted by uk_john What you're ignoring is what everybody in the U.S. is ignoring - the European developers/publishers! PC only titles like STALKER, that sell as many copies on PC as Dragon Age did on PC, or Bioshock did on PC! PC only titles like The Witcher that is more of a follow up to Baldur's Gate as a cRPG than Dragon Age could ever be!

The sequel to Stalker and the Witcher is going multiplatform. $$$ speaks baby!

If sites like this aren't going to support PC cRPG's like the Witcher and instead are going to sell ou to the non CRPG's that are Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, it just isn't going to be around for long, because what keeps these sites going is it's specialization. I know I found it as it was THE site to get info on Wizards and Warriors. It would not even occur to me to come here for Starcraft 2 or Dragon Age! To this day, if you google Wizard's and Warriors, you will get this site near the top. But for Dragon Age and Starcraft 2, this site would be on page 177! When I fist came to this site, it was obvious it was a hardcore cPRG site. Now I don't know what it is - and on that basis, why would anyone new find themselves here?

I remembered Ironworksforum was the only forum that caters to wizards and warriors, I could be wrong though. Thus ironworksforum appear right on top when you googled for it is not a surprise. However, Ironworksforum is not the only forum that caters to dragonage, star craft 2 etc etc etc. There are many other forums too. That why you won't see this forum right on top when you google for it. It's hard to bring in traffic to the forum if you don't appear on top.

There are ways to make this forum appear right on top when you google dragon age ect etc etc and bring in the traffic. Ahem ahem..

[ElfBane]

@ uk_john
As I said before... follow the money. IWs is not a commercial site, Ziroc is a semi-invalid, ergo not much gets done. As to Darkstone still being a featured forum... well, this is a privately owned website that Ziroc graciously allows us to join. He runs it as he sees fit.

As to the inadequacies of IW, I suggest you go elsewhere.

[uk_john]

@Kakero Both STALKER 2 and Witcher 2 are PC games being produced on PC and then converted to console. That's very different from companies like Bioware making action games for console gamers when they used to make cRPG's and then converting those console style action games to PC. Bioshock 3, Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 are all going to be much more action based for the console market and are having a lot of the RPG elements removed.

@ElfBane Isn't this the problem, a small rump of people on this site instead of a thriving site like it used to be. How many people have just stopped coming? At least I am trying to generate a debate. But even debates are not seen as worthy in the games market, where there seems a lot of aggression. I wonder if the experts are right and too much gaming means dumbing down and aggression, and both of those stop reasoned debate!

[SpiritWarrior]

Where's my response? I want 5 paragraphs of my life back. Anyways, a few things in the meantime...

Bioshock never had RPG elements to begin with. Your role is clearly defined. You get to choose whether to save or kill little sisters every so often by pressing "E". Other than that, you play the exact same game as everyone else. It's an FPS with a good storyline.

Isn't this the problem, a small rump of people on this site instead of a thriving site like it used to be

See my references to how PC gaming is dying. Forums about Darkstone and W&W do not a busy site make. Interest in the PC market has declined...how else can we say it?

But even debates are not seen as worthy in the games market, where there seems a lot of aggression. I wonder if the experts are right and too much gaming means dumbing down and aggression, and both of those stop reasoned debate!

Your opening post was a rant, bitching about what should and should not be here. If there's aggression anywhere it starts there. There's a difference between debating a point and simply refusing to acknowledge it.