Greece laid low by its decadence

[Ziroc]

Originally Posted by Timber Loftis BTW, in case anyone hasn't noticed, Americans have very quickly become much more responsible. Credit rates have shot up to an average of 710. This means that in the face of this crisis, people are shedding their debt, paying their bills, and hunkering down. (Note that someone who defaults or goes bankrupt does not have a rising credit score, so the only explanation for this rise is that people are paying off debt.)

Exactly! If this is how we did it all along, we'd be fine! Hell, we may not have the latest silly phone/camera/projector/app spazz toy, but we'd be ok with the economy.

Living within our means. Repeat that when you're tempted by some flashy new toy

[Firestormalpha]

Unfortunately the American people can be as responsible as they want, but if the gov't persists in spending money that we don't have, we will end up just like greece financially at the least. I don't know if we'll have rioting and violent protests, but I don't know that we won't either.

As far as John D's comment about food growing in urban areas, well, roof gardens are becoming very popular these days. Difficult to steal from those without someone knowing, moreso than a garden on ground level anyway.

[Memnoch]

Well, socialism starts when you have a disenfranchised majority that feels like they are being shafted by an elite minority. Main Street - Wall Street maybe?

[johnny]

Well, the Greeks got aid from their EU partners, but u can ask yourself if the money will ever be repaid...... on the other hand, this was only the tip of the iceberg, because apparently the Portugese and Spanish economies are pretty much in the same position the Greeks found themselves in, and it won't be long before countries like Bulgaria and Romania come knocking on the door either.

[Ziroc]

I heard that France warned the UK to "Not ask for help in the future" since the UK wouldn't help out the EU/Greece bailout... Hmmm..

The UK has issues themselves I thought?? How can they help bail out others at the moment?

[Paul Stevens]

so I said no thanks. I'll do without.

And you call yourself an American!!!! Hah!

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by Timber Loftis Cerek and JD, please quit with the senseless diatribe and rhetoric. We are not headed in the same direction, because we DO NOT march in protest against our banks and we DO NOT blame our banks for the problems we have. (Even though perhaps we should.) Instead we THROW MONEY at our banks. We almost worship them, with reverence, it would seem. I have never heard of or seen a government employee protest march in the US, much less one that turned violent. I have seen government workers in some limited areas, such as Cook County, strike over wage negotiations, but nothing akin to a march or anything that turned violent. In fact, the only violent marches I have seen or heard of in this country since the civil rights era are marches perpetrated by environmental or anti-establishment groups, such as those in Seattle some 15 or more years ago.

We don't blame our banks?????? WOW that's news to me and I imagine that's news to the writers of the finance reform act, everyone who said it's Wall Street's fault. The problem is throwing money at the problems, that is what has caused a dramatic increase in the debt in the last two years. Sure we haven't have protests yet, we haven't hit where Greece is yet, soon but not yet. Just wait until there are massive cuts because we can't pay for everything. We've gone from a little over $10 trillion to $13 trillion in debt in two years

TL I did say we shouldn't have thrown money at the banks, we should never have done the TARP bailout, I've said that many times.

Oh TL you forgot the SEUI Union workers that attacked and beat a man at a tea party rally, where they were counter protesting, and the anti Arizona immigration law protesters that chased pro protesters away from the State capital. The attacks where a nearly 80 year old woman, amoung others was attacked at the Republican convention, had a caustic substance thrown on her. The riots in South Central, the shootings in New Orleans when the poop hit the fan there. I hope there aren't any riots when the colaspe happens but I'm not holding my breath.


Edit: I forgot TL isn't Chicago talking about wanting the National Gaurd to come in and help with law enforcement, because of the high murder rate? Riots by gov't employees ain't the only game in town.

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha As far as John D's comment about food growing in urban areas, well, roof gardens are becoming very popular these days. Difficult to steal from those without someone knowing, moreso than a garden on ground level anyway.

That's good thinking, good ole American know how.

Fire, all I'm saying is think ahead, as the boy scouts say "be prepared", or as the Gov't PSA's urge make a plan.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally Posted by John D Harris I imagine that's news to the writers of the finance reform act, everyone who said it's Wall Street's fault.

In performing Bread & Circus before the cameras, sure they bleat and blather that it's Wall Street's fault. But the fixes are simple, and they are avoiding them at all costs.

- Repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley's modifications to the Glass-Steagall Act. (Link.) This would prevent banks from owning other financial institutions. Easy peasy to fix -- but oh the bankers would never allow that.

- Allow the CFTC to regulate the financial derivatives market. This is what the CFTC sought to do originally -- because making bets on futures of financial derivatives is no different essentially than making bets on corn futures or oil futures or sugar beet futures. Again, the banks reacted to this by convincing Congress to pass a law FORBIDDING the CFTC from regulating the derivatives market -- forbidding it from doing its job. Now, instead of going back and putting financial derivatives squarely where they should be -- i.e. under CFTC regulation -- our gummint, in its infinite wisdom is creating a whole new bureaucracy to govern this commodity. Stupid is as stupid does.

I'm sorry but any "hatred" you perceive toward the banks is a big snow job. They own us, they own our government, and we and our government are behaving accordingly.

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by Timber Loftis In performing Bread & Circus before the cameras, sure they bleat and blather that it's Wall Street's fault. But the fixes are simple, and they are avoiding them at all costs. - Repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley's modifications to the Glass-Steagall Act. (Link.) This would prevent banks from owning other financial institutions. Easy peasy to fix -- but oh the bankers would never allow that. - Allow the CFTC to regulate the financial derivatives market. This is what the CFTC sought to do originally -- because making bets on futures of financial derivatives is no different essentially than making bets on corn futures or oil futures or sugar beet futures. Again, the banks reacted to this by convincing Congress to pass a law FORBIDDING the CFTC from regulating the derivatives market -- forbidding it from doing its job. Now, instead of going back and putting financial derivatives squarely where they should be -- i.e. under CFTC regulation -- our gummint, in its infinite wisdom is creating a whole new bureaucracy to govern this commodity. Stupid is as stupid does. I'm sorry but any "hatred" you perceive toward the banks is a big snow job. They own us, they own our government, and we and our government are behaving accordingly.

You're correct about the repeal TL... I wrote that several years ago, though I didn't know the name of the law that alowed investment banks and commercail banks to merge. I wrote about it when the Housing bubble burst, when nearly everybody was screaming about GWB. I said then Wooa wait a minute, it was President Clinton who signed the law repealing the protections put in place after the great Depression. You're right they did alow the derivatives market to run amock, and did so to protect the banks and alow them to lend money so everybody could have a house. I preached it back then it was a mistake, but of course since I'm a right winger It didn't matter what I said. I was against TARP, and Proudly wrote that Both my Senators and my Congressman voted against it.

I'm sorry to hear you feel the banks own you, but I can tell you right now no man owns me. I'll die on my feet before I live on my knees. I've made the choice and nothing short of God Himself will make me change, and believe me my wife's got 23 years of trying. The only thing I owe the bank is my house, if'n they want it they can have it, but they don't want it because I pay my mortagage, they want the money not the house. I don't own a credit card, if I don't have the cash for something I don't need it. I've writen for years "It's not the high cost of living that gets you, It's the cost of living High (on the hog)"


I NEVR WROTE anything about Hatered for the Bank, I wrote "I imagine that's news to the writers of the finance reform act, everyone who said it's Wall Street's fault." in response to your statement: "we DO NOT blame our banks"... Well Hale fire and brinstone TL for someone who doesn't blame the banks you do a mighty fine job of not blaming them with this statement about Banks: "They own us, they own our government, and we and our government are behaving accordingly."