Obama's excellent strategy

[Timber Loftis]

Originally Posted by John D Harris I didn't say there wasn't a need for Health care reform, just not this turkey.

There's a saying about letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Legislation is compromise. Not doing anything is the worst thing here.

1) remove the prexisting conditions crap

This "turkey" does that. In fact it does it first and foremost, and that's one part that hasn't been up for much debate.

2) Tort reform, (Texas has tort reform and the lowest health costs in the nation)

I have mixed feelings on this one. Capping tort claims means that the people who are the most egregiously injured by botched operations are the ones who pay the price.

There are better options.
- First off, doctors could quit screwing up. I mean, this actually is an option. If ignernt-assed hospitals didn't require 18 and 24 hour shifts of their residents, it would help. The whole system is set up to make their job much higher stress than it should be.
- Doctors and patients should be allowed to enter into an agreement and mutually buy insurance policies to protect patients going into surgery in the event of mishaps. These would be specific policies just for the specific surgeries/procedures. This would certainly be a cheaper alternative than the crazy medmal premiums.

3)Health care providers can't charge cash customers one penny more then they will except from an insurance company. which is usually 50 cents on the dollar, or discriminate against Cash customers. You take care of those things and you will take care of the majority of true problems in health care.

I wish. I just bought some antibiotics for my son. He has an ear infection and resisted a round of amoxocillin. So we had to step up to the next whatever pill they go to. The meds were $49. I handed him my copay card. All my meds cost me either $7 (generic) or $15 (name brand). $7 for this generic drug. 1/7th the cost to someone with no insurance. Ridiculous. I'm in favor of very strict price controls like Canada has on drugs -- it's not like the drug companies don't sell their wares in Canada, they do. So they obviously would sell for less if they were forced.

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by Timber Loftis There's a saying about letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Legislation is compromise. Not doing anything is the worst thing here. This "turkey" does that. In fact it does it first and foremost, and that's one part that hasn't been up for much debate. I have mixed feelings on this one. Capping tort claims means that the people who are the most egregiously injured by botched operations are the ones who pay the price. There are better options. - First off, doctors could quit screwing up. I mean, this actually is an option. If ignernt-assed hospitals didn't require 18 and 24 hour shifts of their residents, it would help. The whole system is set up to make their job much higher stress than it should be. - Doctors and patients should be allowed to enter into an agreement and mutually buy insurance policies to protect patients going into surgery in the event of mishaps. These would be specific policies just for the specific surgeries/procedures. This would certainly be a cheaper alternative than the crazy medmal premiums. I wish. I just bought some antibiotics for my son. He has an ear infection and resisted a round of amoxocillin. So we had to step up to the next whatever pill they go to. The meds were $49. I handed him my copay card. All my meds cost me either $7 (generic) or $15 (name brand). $7 for this generic drug. 1/7th the cost to someone with no insurance. Ridiculous. I'm in favor of very strict price controls like Canada has on drugs -- it's not like the drug companies don't sell their wares in Canada, they do. So they obviously would sell for less if they were forced.

ahhhh spoken like a good lawyer we don't cause high costs... ohh about those billable hours..... well let's not worry about that right now shall we? Now tell me how you were mistreated.

But what this turkey has besides the three things that are the only things needed is.... wait .... wait for it.... ahh yes it's going to bring in lots of money to the gov't.... taxes and more taxes oh they call them fines, or penalties.... then we got the regulations massive massive regulations. Between you and me TL I hope you get all you want and more including Cap and trade, just load it up with Gov't and taxes it will only hasten the inevitable... I always wanted to be a warlord

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca Is that so? That's not very proveable. I note a lack of anger for the last seven years of previous managment, who has without a doubt caused lost lives and in fact put us to where we are today. I mean seven years vs 9 months, any sense of fairness has to be way off not to get that. Also those boots on the ground in Afganistan sign up for what they get. They have to hold the line whether command has a head up the ass or is simply a deliberate planner and/or a consensus building leader.

I agree that this operation should have been completed already.

However, an all volunteer military cannot win without political support. Many would think we would have learned something after Korea. Alas, that went to hell in a hand basket with Vietnam. Many more would think we would have learned something from Vietnam. Alas, that is heading straight to hell in a hand basket with an indecisive administration in charge of Afghanistan. Current operations have patrols of 1/3 of needed size facing militant adversaries that have become better trained from their learning experiences fighting the US soldier. As well, they are becoming better armed, and are "out-gunning" the failing super power USofA.

The political environment is so bad that we had to cancel our second ammunition orders from IMI because they are a Jewish manufacture of ammunition that is used to fight Muslims with. If that ain't horseshit, please tell me what is.

Furthermore, our loaned debt is so bad, that current second ammunition resource plant is now in fricking China! That's right, IMI of Israel no longer produces our second orders, and that account has been transferred to China!

All the while the political front is concerned about what other people might think about us. Who gives a rats ass! But then again, it took 9/11 for many of you to open your eyes to world events. And if we don't finish this fight correctly, the sour smell of deceived destruction will befall us once again. However different this time, it will contain dirty nukes from two separate directions!

Politicians and more so, liberals both need to remove their blinders and look beyond the tip of their noses.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin All the while the political front is concerned about what other people might think about us. Who gives a rats ass! But then again, it took 9/11 for many of you to open your eyes to world events. And if we don't finish this fight correctly, the sour smell of deceived destruction will befall us once again. However different this time, it will contain dirty nukes from two separate directions!

*best shaggy voice*
Zoiks Scooob!!!!


And if it is a guy more like Mcveigh than Mohamed who does it, is it still Obama's faut?

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca *best shaggy voice* Zoiks Scooob!!!! And if it is a guy more like Mcveigh than Mohamed who does it, is it still Obama's faut?

Then we haul his rear end down to Florida and let him ride Ol' Sparky until he quits twitchin'.


Flex is 100% correct about not learning the lessons form Vietnam, I listened to folks here 7 years ago whine and cry about a quagmire.... that is why I listed the number of KIA from vietnam in my sig, so you all can see what a real quagmire is. If we don't get our poop together it will soon turn into a real Charlie Foxtrot.

[DrowArchmage]

Originally Posted by ElfBane Dammit! Crap like this pisses me off. The military HATES this kind of pussyfooting. What we(the military) prefer is ; 1. go in there and kick-ass, take names, try them for war crimes. 2. don't do anything. What we DON'T like is; 1. go in there and kick a little bit of ass, but then hang around and try to be their friends. What should be done is MAKE A DECISION!!!! Right or Wrong, just make a decision.

Semper Fi!

[Morgeruat]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca And if it is a guy more like Mcveigh than Mohamed who does it, is it still Obama's faut?

Y'know, funny thing about McVeigh, Terry Nichols his sidekick, was married to a muslima who had ties to Omar Abdul-Rahman, aka the Blind Sheik responsible for planning the 1993 World Trade Center bombings, McVeigh's antisemitic white supremacist friends were great friends of antisemitic muslim groups who also wanted to strike at America. And if you ever listened to McVeigh or Nichols, OKC was reprisal for Janet Reno's actions in Waco. So Clinton was responsible, if you care to place blame. Personally as abhorrent as the "justice" department was under Clinton, McVeigh's actions are on his own head, just like another OKC bombing type incident would be on the head of whoever actually did it, along with any supporters or instigators of that action.

[Morgeruat]

Originally Posted by John D Harris Then we haul his rear end down to Florida and let him ride Ol' Sparky until he quits twitchin'. Flex is 100% correct about not learning the lessons form Vietnam, I listened to folks here 7 years ago whine and cry about a quagmire.... that is why I listed the number of KIA from vietnam in my sig, so you all can see what a real quagmire is. If we don't get our poop together it will soon turn into a real Charlie Foxtrot.

General McChrystal isn't helping things with his new ROA, which prevents the military from going into civilian areas to chase down taliban. Which means they can safely take over a civilian house and use it as a sniper nest against US troops with no fear of returned fire.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin current second ammunition resource plant is now in fricking China! That's right, IMI of Israel no longer produces our second orders, and that account has been transferred to China![/img]

I'm interested in learning more about this. Any links?

it took 9/11 for many of you to open your eyes to world events. And if we don't finish this fight correctly, the sour smell of deceived destruction will befall us once again. However different this time, it will contain dirty nukes from two separate directions!

This bit contains 2 things I object to. First, I think after the 1993 WTC failed bombing attempt and USS Cole and whatnot occurring we knew that we were being targeted by AQ. I don't think we needed 9/11.

Second which 2 directions are these dirty nukes coming from? NK and Iran? Anyway, both NK and Iran have real nuke capability that is of more concern, if you ask me.

Politicians and more so, liberals both need to remove their blinders and look beyond the tip of their noses.

Broad liberal bash is meaningless. No one I know has blinders in place. Please justify this.

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by Morgeruat General McChrystal isn't helping things with his new ROA, which prevents the military from going into civilian areas to chase down taliban. Which means they can safely take over a civilian house and use it as a sniper nest against US troops with no fear of returned fire.

ROA's can be a problem, the only rule in war is kill them before they kill you... or as Patton said the object of war isn't to die for your country it's to make the other bastard die for his.