thief dual fighter musings

[Armen]

i was wondering about the power of a (cheated) thief dualled to kensai and then started wondering whether the swashie bonuses might make a (legal) swashi->fighter a contender so i tested them via the game itself and SK to grant the XP, stuck some leather armour on him and a longsword in his hand (dualling at 24 to get UAI) - see below


Thief (24) -> Fighter (25)
AC=3 -> AC=3
HP=114 -> HP=117
THACO=8 -> THACO=-4


Swashi (24) -> Fighter (25)
AC=0 -> AC=-2
HP=114 -> HP=117
THACO=5 -> THACO=-8


Thief (24) -> Kensai (25) (SK’d clearly)
AC=3 -> AC=3
HP=114 -> HP=117
THACO=8 -> THACO=-12

a few things seem strange about this

1. the level 24 swashie only gets +3 to AC and THACO not the +4 (or 5?) i expected

2. once the swashie has dualled though his AC bonus has improved (to the equvalent of +5) as has his THACO (to the equivalent of +4)

3. the kensai AC bonus does not get applied

strange huh?

which (taking the numbers at face value and ignoring kiai or not and backstab or not and ethics aside) means would you prefer:

THACO -8
AC -2

or

THACO -12
AC +3

or to put it another way - is 5 points of AC worth sacrificing 4 points of THACO?

EDIT: on reflection with an XP cap remover the kensai should keep getting THACO improvements every 3 levels so it's not quite that simple . . .

EDIT: or there's just putting all that XP into the swashie

AC=-3
HP=148
THACO=-10

but just that 1 attack per round basic of course - not brilliant

anyway - not knowing how to decide i let my choice of portrait guide me and have decided that swashbuckler->fighter is the best pick for the character

[Armen]

lol

not the most enthralling of topics then

for the record i started a swashbuckler - i've hit UAI and dualled now and, with saved up quest rewards, levelled to 9

i've still got a fair amount of chapter 3 do-able stuff to do (i've avoided all undead and beholders so far for instance, multiple strongholds . . .) and am going to carry on soloing until there's nothing really left to do

i'm wondering about picking Aerie up then and doing a marathon scroll scribing session with my ill- and not-so-ill-gotten library and then continuing as a duo - not sure

[Armen]

found enough XP in chapter 3 to reactivate the swashie (with only slightly exploiting the re-spawning spirit trolls in Nalia's keep)

no real need for the XP from picking up Aerie although i'm still undecided whether to do so or not

kitted out in full plate+1 he's got -25AC with a single weapon

THACO = -18

[Armen]

that's all very interesting Armen - any new developments?

well, as you're asking, i've just noticed one odd thing - when my fighter phase levelled to 23 i got my 5 set snare abilities back (they worked too) - i didn't think to much of it but i've just spotted that now my swashie has re-activated i now have 10 set snares a day

oh and i am taking aerie from now on

[Kazilan]

I'm considering starting a new game with some sort of fighter/thief dual class combination and am wondering how much you enjoyed your swashie-fighter. I can't decide which way to go, fighter or thief class first, there seem to be some cool ideas involving wizard slayers turned thieves with UAI. BUT swashbucklers definitely have the highest overall fun/coolness roleplaying factor - I always lose interest with characters built solely for statistical reasons. I'm also considering a single class character - how was the high level swashbuckler before you dualled? Still fun, or stale?

[Armen]

i've kinda forgotten to be honest as i got busy with work so stopped playing for a while and abandoned the game (but then i do that a lot anyway)

like i said above i dualled at level 24 to get UAI and i think he was pretty strong by then anyway - i think RP-wise i don't think dualling swashbucklers makes that much sense - they're already kinda fighter/thieves anyway so i can't think of a good reason for it - this game was going to be a 'how powerful will i be?' type of game really

i did a lower level swashie(10)->fighter once and used the thief levels just for utility trap/lock purposes and some 'free' *s

the downside for me of a single class swashie though are the low APR (although dual wielding belm (later scarlet ninja-to) and kundane) can help with that) and i think swashies get 'whirlwind attack'

and finding something to do with thief point gets tedious later imo (although i have BG tweaks now so getting enough points to be a good thief in plate armour could be interesting)

if you don't like backstabing, a swashie could be a good party character i reckon

that said my favourite thief dual concept is still assassin(24)->cleric