Grand Theft Auto inspires Thai murder

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Cerek BULLPUCKEY!

I might just have to add that word to my vocabulary!

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior But you're seeing it in black and white. Let's try to improve the system the prevents them "getting their hands on it" before we start considering destroying it completely. It bears noting that the only reason we have come to talk about this is because the system is broken to begin with. So instead of screaming "let's ban everything" let's look into fixing it first!

Again, very well said. Hear hear.

[Luvian]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior But you're seeing it in black and white. Let's try to improve the system the prevents them "getting their hands on it" before we start considering destroying it completely. It bears noting that the only reason we have come to talk about this is because the system is broken to begin with. So instead of screaming "let's ban everything" let's look into fixing it first!

I know and I'm all for fixing the rules where they are deficient (the US retail chains for example) but it seem Cerek think the best solution is to ban the content he personally disagrees with, no matter the fact his courts have deemed that unconstitutional.

I wish I could ignore my country's laws that I disagrees with while at the same time try to push other laws on my fellow citizens. It sounds useful, and my opinion of what is right and wrong is obviously better than theirs.

Originally Posted by Cerek the simplest solution is to NOT create games that require a ratings system to begin with.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Luvian I know and I'm all for fixing the rules where they are deficient (the US retail chains for example) but it seem Cerek think the best solution is to ban the content he personally disagrees with, no matter the fact his courts have deemed that unconstitutional. I wish I could ignore my country's laws that I disagrees with while at the same time try to push other laws on my fellow citizens. It sounds useful, and my opinion of what is right and wrong is obviously better than theirs.

That sounded like a suggestion from Cerek, not an advocation of banning things from being created. What he said is true. The simplest solution IS to not create irresponsible games in the first place. SELF-REGULATION trumps all.

However, people won't self regulate, so there's nothing against banning stuff from sale. Create all you like, we just won't distribute it. This is the thinking behind hate crime laws. "Say it in private if you must, but don't try and foist such venom in the public sphere where it damages people."

[Yorick]

Luvian do you have kids?
Is playing a game more important than your kid's health?
To be hypothetical, would you self-limit, and stop playing games altogether if it were proven that the health of your kid was being affected?

[Luvian]

Originally Posted by Yorick Luvian do you have kids? Is playing a game more important than your kid's health? To be hypothetical, would you self-limit, and stop playing games altogether if it were proven that the health of your kid was being affected?

First of all there is a problem if you play Mature games in front of your kids. Second of all there is a problem if you play games instead of raising your kids. And thirdly a hobby--any hobby--is supposed to balanced with the rest of your schedule.

If you look at my sig you should see I spent 4 hours playing video games this week. Coincidentally, the game in question has nudity, alcohol and dismemberment. Here's a guess but I'd go so far as to say most people would be able to spend those 4 weekly hours when the kids are asleep or away from the house.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Luvian First of all there is a problem if you play Mature games in front of your kids. Second of all there is a problem if you play games instead of raising your kids. And thirdly a hobby--any hobby--is supposed to balanced with the rest of your schedule. If you look at my sig you should see I spent 4 hours playing video games this month. Coincidentally, the game in question has nudity, alcohol and dismemberment. Here's a guess but I'd go so far as to say most people would able to spend those 4 weekly hours when the kids are asleep or away from the house.

That's not answering the question Luvian.
Would you self-limit and stop playing games entirely, if it was proven your playing games harmed their health?

[Bungleau]

Originally Posted by Yorick I acknowledged his Canadianship in my post to him. Americentricity is not limited to Americans.

Damn! I *KNEW* that reading thing would bite me sooner or later Guess I'll have to practice more...

On topic, I know that I have different standards for games that I play and ones that my kids play. I'm allowed more grown-up content than they are At some point, they'll be allowed more grown-up content than they are now. It's all a process of evaluating and re-evaluating them.

Getting back to the main point of the thread, banning the game in Thailand, I offer the question of ignorance. Those who don't play games don't understand them and don't know how to deal with them. Ergo, they choose to ban them because that (in my opinion) offers them the least-risk option of being wrong.

If it is a problem and you ban it, you win.

If it is not a problem and you don't ban, you win... kind of.

If it is not a problem and you ban, you lose... kind of.

If it is a problem and you don't ban, you lose.

There's a big "if" leading off all those, to be sure. And the payoff is quite different between winning and losing from both personal and societal levels.

Banning is really a bandaid in my mind. It prevents you from having discussions with youths to make appropriate decisions for appropriate reasons with appropriate consideration for consequences. And the real goal of a parent (or at least my goal ) is raising your kids so they can leave the house successfully. Banning prevents them from doing that.

Ultimately, I can't be sure of what the results are going to be for anyone else's kids. I can, however, work on the results for *my* kids. Perhaps self-realization is a holy grail of some sort, but it's one worth searching for.

[Luvian]

Originally Posted by Yorick That's not answering the question Luvian. Would you self-limit and stop playing games entirely, if it was proven your playing games harmed their health?

Taken at face value the question doesn't make any sense. After all if they are not exposed to it how can they be affected?

But that's not the point since this is a trick question. The person answer yes then you'd say "Har har! Secondary exposure through society! You see you were for banning games all along and you just didn't know it!"

Which is a ridiculous argument. Would you stop using firearms if it was proven they could harm children's health? Would you stop drinking if it was proven it could harm their health? Would you stop driving? Would you stop using fire? Would you stop using electricity? Cutlery? Pretty much everything can harm children.

[Yorick]

I don't think it's an issue of blanketly banning the game, but perhaps declaring culpability where provable situations are beyond a doubt?

Dunno...

If that ever happened that would create some self-regulation pretty quickly I'd say.

At least we need to create bigger hurdles for mass distributing games that have the protagonist rewarded for illegal acts. Banning or limiting public advertising, like we do for cigarettes would be one such idea for example.