This city deserves a better class of criminal...

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Raistlin Majere Hmm, I'm not really up for a long post today, but I'll admit to finding it amusing. The judicial response, however, I do not... I thank my lucky stars the judicial system in Finland uses a little common sense in passing judgement...the "slap on the wrists" is much more common in obvious "prank" situations here. Sure, you'll end up paying for what you've done, and then some, but you don't get your whole life screwed up because of some lame stunt you've pulled as a dumb teenager. I've done some pretty stupid things growing up, and with a system like the states, I'd probably be screwed for life(though I suppose growing up knowing what will happen, might have discouraged from doing things...who knows). However, most of the time the police have just gotten a chuckle, then driven me home and I get punished at home, and I reckon I've turned up just fine without excessive court actions.

You pretty much summed up my ideas on this, nice post!

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Raistlin Majere Hmm, I'm not really up for a long post today, but I'll admit to finding it amusing. The judicial response, however, I do not... I thank my lucky stars the judicial system in Finland uses a little common sense in passing judgement...the "slap on the wrists" is much more common in obvious "prank" situations here. Sure, you'll end up paying for what you've done, and then some, but you don't get your whole life screwed up because of some lame stunt you've pulled as a dumb teenager. I've done some pretty stupid things growing up, and with a system like the states, I'd probably be screwed for life(though I suppose growing up knowing what will happen, might have discouraged from doing things...who knows). However, most of the time the police have just gotten a chuckle, then driven me home and I get punished at home, and I reckon I've turned up just fine without excessive court actions.

First of all, it is the victim of the crime who decides whether or not to press charges - in this case, the theater owner. Once he/she does decide to press charges, the police don't have the option of deciding to charge a lesser offense. They have to charge the criminal according to the laws and rules on the books. Lawyers can attempt to plea bargain the charge down to a lesser offence and this is often done to avoid the time and cost of trial. The two attorneys meet and the defendent basically agrees to plead guilty to a reduced charge to avoid the trail.

As for the judge making a determination in the grey area, they have some latitude for doing that, based on the charge. But when the charge is a felony offense (rather than a misdemeanor), the judge has fewer options to exercise alternative punishments. I personally was surprised to read the theft was considered a felony, but that is exactly why I don't think it is funny. Felony charges are very serious. If it had been a misdemeanor charge, I would probably share SpiritWarriors view regarding the situation. It would have been a foolish prank that got the guy more trouble than he expected, but not enough to seriously affect his future. A felony charge is much different, regardless of the actual punishment received. Every job application asks if the person has been convicted of a felony offense. If Yes, explain what happened. If this "joker" is found guilty of the felony offense, it will literally follow him the rest of his life because he will have to list the guilty charge and explain the situation behind it. And while some employers might view it as a stupid teenage prank, many others will be more concerned that he was convicted of felony theft and will decline his application on that basis - which they have a right to do.

Like I said at the beginning, this guy's life has suddenly become much more limited because of a stupid decision he made.

[Cerek]

Here is another example to illustrate why I don't find humor in these situations.

Last year, one of our local high schools recieved a series of bomb threats within a two week period. This, of course, was very big news in our little rural town. The elementary school also happens to be on the same campus area, so both school had to be completely evacuated while police searched the buildings - a process that took 3-4 hours each time. They also had to call in bomb-sniffing dogs. Our town is too small to have that kind of resource, so the dogs had to be brought in from a town over 70 miles away. Another serious waste of police time and resources. Two teens were eventually caught and charged with the crimes. Making a bomb threat is also a felony offense, so they are facing a lot of the same limitations the "joker" is facing with the exception that bomb threats are probably considered even more serious than felony theft.

To make the situation even worse, during the period of bomb threats against the school, a worker in the day care center decided to pull a joke on her coworkers and call a bomb threat in herself. She went into the back of the day care and dialed their number. When her coworkers up front answered the phone, she told them there was a bomb in the building. She just meant it as an innocent joke, but the law doesn't view it that way. The day care had to be evacuated and the building had to be searched. Even though she finally admitted it was just a prank, the police are obligated to search the building just to make sure.

The sheriff expressed his own disappointment that the coworker had made such a stupid mistake. It was pretty clear she meant no real harm. The police, lawyers and judge MUST act according to the law and the law does not differentiate between "harmless prank" and "actual offense". In the letter of the law, committing the act IS an actual offense - period. So two teens and a formerly good day care worker are now facing some serious prison time all because they thought it would be "funny" to call in bomb threats.

That is why I say a lot of culture needs a strong dose of reality. Unfortunately, when it happens, it is often a much stronger dose than they anticipated.

[Lavindathar]

If he gets prosecuted for that, it's just ridiculous. The owners of the cinema should drop all charges and just see the funny side.

Christ, america is stupidly strict lol.

[Bungleau]

At this point, we really don't know what "that" is.

It could be just taking a stack of posters off a pile (no damage) or off a wall (minor damage). It could also be breaking display cases in order to get at the posters or other items inside (serious damage), or breaking actual displays and memorabilia (major damage).

At which point is it no longer funny?

There are some places where "funny" doesn't exist. Cerek mentioned bomb threats. Crying "Fire!" in a crowded place falls into the same category.

I've related the story before of a friend of mine going across customs and when asked if he had anything to declare, queried another friend to ask if he thought that included the M-16 broken down in the trunk.

Customs was not amused, and went looking for the M-16. And they can disassemble your vehicle while doing so without a second thought.

I fly a lot... and inside (and outside) the US, joking doesn't exist when going through security. If you don't believe, me, joke that you've got a bomb with you. They'll find it really funny

Now, stealing and vandalism in a movie theater are nowhere near the same level as crossing borders or getting into airplanes. I just offer the latter as proof that "funny" has limits.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Lavindathar If he gets prosecuted for that, it's just ridiculous. The owners of the cinema should drop all charges and just see the funny side. Christ, america is stupidly strict lol.

You're absolutely right, Lavindathar. The cinema should send the message that it's ok for people to damage and steal their property - as long as they dress up like comic character first.

The fact that the offenses qualify as felonies indicate that it was more than just grabbing a poster off the counter. A felony means there was more serious damage down in the act. But hey, let's just overlook all that and let the guy slide because he dressed up funny.

As for your comment about America, that's how flame wars get started. I would have expected better from you.

[Cerek]

Here is a more complete copy of the article about the Joker incident. I found it on cnn.com. Note that police expect him to be charged with theft and malevolent destruction of property. It doesn't detail what property was destroyed, but that is what makes his actions a felony charge instead of a misdemeanor.

He was also being restrained by several cinema employees, so obviously he did more than try to grab a couple of posters.


Thief Disguised as the Joker Arrested for Stealing "The Dark Night" Posters-

A man was arrested in Michigan for trying to steal posters, as well as some other items related to the movie "Batman: The Dark Night".

The police arrested the 20-year-old Spencer Taylor when he attempted to steal items related to new Batman movie from a cinema lobby being disguised as the Joker.

Three Rivers Detective, Mike Mohney, outlined that he expects Taylor to be charged with theft and malevolent destruction of property.

Detective Mohney said that early July 28 police officers were informed about the thief who entered the Three Rivers 6 theatre. When arrived police found theatre's employees holding back a man in a purple suit, green wig and face paint, resembling Batman's enemy from "The Dark Night".

Spencer Taylor will hear his sentence on August 5 in St Joseph County District Court.

Source: Associated Press

[Raistlin Majere]

Well, you certainly do make good points, Cerek! I haven't studied law, in school or otherwise, so I can't say I know for sure what all the terms mean, but I guess felony definately makes it worse for the poor guy. Though if he's tried stealing stuff other than posters, than he's kinda crossing the line between a prank and just plain daylight robbery anyway...posters are pieces of paper, after all, while the other "goods" may actually be of real value. Can't really make the call without knowing the specifics, and even than it's a matter of opinion, of course..

Anyhow, referring to your example of bomb threats, it just never ceases to amaze me how tastless some people can be. I can't imagine how anyone could find a bomb threat amusing, particularily so with all the news coming in from the middle-east and other areas of conflict. We had a few bomb threats in high school as well, though I'm not sure if the idiots calling them in were ever caught..Any prank that causes panic in people, or otherwise potentially threatens them, automatically goes into the "tasteless and absurd" category in my book.

[Firestormalpha]

Just want to point some small details out.

The bomb threat illustrations were Bungleau's not Cerek's.

And to Raistlin's comment "posters are pieces of paper"

So is cash. And theatre prints of posters can potentially be worth a bit of money.

[ZFR]

Originally Posted by Raistlin Majere posters are pieces of paper, after all

If you don't punish someone saying that what he stole isn't worth much, it would encourage others to steal as well, steal things that are worth more.

Every punishment or the lack of punishment sends a message to others.

Originally Posted by Lavindathar The owners of the cinema should drop all charges and just see the funny side.

How about the guy who sends him to prison dresses up as batman? Then the thief should go there willingly and just see the funny side.