Which characters should I try this time...

[Zuvio]

Originally posted by Xen: quote: He might as well have said: "Wherewolf are too weak, so instead Shapechangers will be able to shapechange into a Red Dragon."

Good argument you got there. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[/QUOTE]But then u would only be able to fight in big open spaces and probably killing your partymembers as well

There is a reason why the class was made as it was. Druids should NOT be better tank and fighters than real fighters. That is totally unbalancing, and totally cheating. He might as well have said: "Wherewolf are too weak, so instead Shapechangers will be able to shapechange into a Red Dragon."

Druids aren't better tanks then fighters, only the shapeshifter at level 13+ is, temporarily. And like I said, only early game, were you are mostly fighting trolls and other critters. Against mages, they fare pretty weak, think PfMW. The only overpowered factors of the Greater Werewolf are their regeneration and their base saving throws of 1/1/1/1/1. With proper tactics, a greater werewolf can be taken down NO problem.

[Xen]

Druids aren't better tanks then fighters, only the shapeshifter at level 13+ is, temporarily. And like I said, only early game, were you are mostly fighting trolls and other critters. Against mages, they fare pretty weak, think PfMW. The only overpowered factors of the Greater Werewolf are their regeneration and their base saving throws of 1/1/1/1/1. With proper tactics, a greater werewolf can be taken down NO problem.

Yes that`s right. They can be temporarely tanks. Jaheira and Aerie are good exampels. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Zuvio: Druids aren't better tanks then fighters, only the shapeshifter at level 13+ is, temporarily. And like I said, only early game, were you are mostly fighting trolls and other critters. Against mages, they fare pretty weak, think PfMW. The only overpowered factors of the Greater Werewolf are their regeneration and their base saving throws of 1/1/1/1/1. With proper tactics, a greater werewolf can be taken down NO problem.

You are missing the whole point. The shapeshifter was balanced by Bioware. You think the class is weak? Fine, don't play it. I happen to think that a normal non-magical dagger is weak, too. I don't go in Near Infinity and make it +20.

This mod is not balancing the Shapeshifter, it was already balanced as intended by the devs. When you take something, and add or remove power from it, you are not balancing it, you are un-balancing it. And if this un-balancing give you the advantage, it's as much of a cheat as "balancing" your pc by giving him 25 in all stats.

And if you don't consider perfect saving throws and crazy regeneration to be un-balancing, you really need to reconsider the game. No other classes have such inate abilities. And how about being able to cast spell while shapeshifted? Is that still possible? That's ridicullous...

[Pirengle]

Sliding back on topic...

I suggest you take Edwin and Korgan, at least. They are the best powergaming mage and tank, respectively. They also have two strange quests that are worth playing at least once. Also take CN Anomen for a cleric and a romance. There isn't much different between LG and CN Ano--I think it's just a 2nd level spell. Whee. Korgan and Anomen will provide all the pounding power, and Edwin's extensive spell knowledge comes in handy. Jan is also a nice addition to the party, being a thief and all.

I suggest you take the Skald kit. You don't need to be a Blade--you've got strong fighters to whack things. Play a skald, go with missile weapons, and sing. Your bard song will help your fighters immensely.

If you have five slots filled, you can always pick NPCs up for their dialogues. If you go with PC/Edwin/Korgan/Anomen/Jan, try picking up Aerie, Mazzy, Valygar, or Jaheira for some interesting results.

I don't suggest Haer'Dalis because he's not as fun with an evil party as he is with a good party. I think he'd work well in a PC thief/Jaheira/Nalia/Aerie/Keldorn party.

[Zuvio]

Originally posted by Luvian: quote: Originally posted by Zuvio: Druids aren't better tanks then fighters, only the shapeshifter at level 13+ is, temporarily. And like I said, only early game, were you are mostly fighting trolls and other critters. Against mages, they fare pretty weak, think PfMW. The only overpowered factors of the Greater Werewolf are their regeneration and their base saving throws of 1/1/1/1/1. With proper tactics, a greater werewolf can be taken down NO problem.

You are missing the whole point. The shapeshifter was balanced by Bioware. You think the class is weak? Fine, don't play it. I happen to think that a normal non-magical dagger is weak, too. I don't go in Near Infinity and make it +20.

This mod is not balancing the Shapeshifter, it was already balanced as intended by the devs. When you take something, and add or remove power from it, you are not balancing it, you are un-balancing it. And if this un-balancing give you the advantage, it's as much of a cheat as "balancing" your pc by giving him 25 in all stats.

And if you don't consider perfect saving throws and crazy regeneration to be un-balancing, you really need to reconsider the game. No other classes have such inate abilities. And how about being able to cast spell while shapeshifted? Is that still possible? That's ridicullous... [/QUOTE]Greater Malison and Slow come to mind. And as for being able to cast spells while being lycantrophied: the shapeshifter is as much a lycantrop as a druid, so thats valid IMO.

I'm getting your point about the unbalancing, though I don't feel it that way.

[Bloodtitan]

IIRC edwin and jaheira battle each other to death in later stages ... no good.
i don't know about mazzy but especially edwin looks down on ALL midgets except korgan and his arrogance is a must-have [img]smile.gif[/img] .
korgan is korgan. speech sound and text all the finest ... funny as edwin if you like his brutality hehe.
korgan and edwin would be the only excuse to me to pick up anomen. oh yeah that must be worth a sight - them slagging the romancenovel fool.

[SixOfSpades]

Evil Bard, huh? Well, let's see, two Bards is a bit much (If you want to do the Bard thing, do it right--party of 6 Bards), so let's say you've got
Marilyn Manson,
Edwin,
Jan.
Your Wizard spells and Thieving abilities are more than adequately covered there, but you have no Priest and only half a Tank. I suggest
Korgan,
Anomen, and
Jaheira.

You've got 1 Tank, 2 Backup Tanks, 1 Wizard, 2 Backup Wizards, a Thief, and good solid representation on both halves of the Priest Scroll. The entire party is Evil/Neutral. I hope you don't mind trying to Romance Jaheira.... (Note: CN Anomen has completely different dialogues in ToB from the LG Anomen. No more "Ill-concieved group!")

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On the Shapeshifter issue, I disagree with you--when you say that the original Shapeshifter was balanced. It wasn't. When Weimer posted the list of differences between the normal GWW and the Shapeshifter's GWW, I was shocked as all the discrepancies that BioWare never filled in: Poor Regeneration, worse Magic & Elemental Resistances, and to top it all off, your paws were only +1, so you couldn't hit crap. I agree with Weimer in that BioWare really shortchanged the Shapeshifter.

But I still prefer the original Shapeshifter to the Unbalanced Shapeshifter. I don't know what Weimer was smoking when he finished The Paw and said, "Yeah, that looks about right," but it must have been some pretty good stuff. I'm going to counter some statements now....

Originally posted by Zuvio: Note that you encounter greater werewolves in the game. They are the same as Cernds greater werewolve-form.

In my one-and-only game with Rebalanced Shapeshifter installed, I took Cernd to the Windspear Hills, stripped him naked, and tossed him into a room with 3 Wolfweres and 2 Greater Wolfweres, using nothing but his "Standard Attack" AI. Guess who won?

Druids aren't better tanks then fighters, only the shapeshifter at level 13+ is, temporarily.

Temporarily? Temporarily? Given that The Paw

• Does not block spellcasting (like all other Polymorphs do)
• Does not prevent talking to NPCs (like all other Polymorphs do)
• Lasts forever (and you can always create more if you need 'em)
• Is essentially a Big Metal Unit, available free of charge and in Chapter 2
• Can be used by anyone with Use Any Item (can I get extra cheese with that?), and
• Does not incur so much as a CHA penalty for being a gigantic wolf with red, glowing eyes strolling through downtown Athkatla,

What possible reason would you EVER have for taking it off?

Against mages, they fare pretty weak, think PfMW.

PfMW? You've got to be kidding me. Think Magic Resistance, Insect Plague, and Nature's Beauty.

He's a better tank than most of your NPC's early on.

He's a better Tank than pretty much ALL of the NPC's, for practically the entire game. The statement I am about to make will sound absurd, but is absolutely true: The Rebalanced Shapeshifter is the only character I have ever seen that would make a good Tank even while wearing the Ring of Folly. True--under the simple logic that about 90% of the enemies/battles in SoA simply cannot damage him faster than he heals. Most physical attacks are shrugged off by his AC, while spells have to get past his MR and Saving Throws. Anything that DOES get through is repaired in less than a round. Cernd can stand there like a drooling idiot while the bad guys use up all their spells, while your party finishes their hand of canasta. Cernd can easily take on a string of Adamantite Golems, one after another for hours on end, and feel no pain. Name me another Tank who can do THAT.

Original Shapeshifter--Bad.
Rebalanced Shapeshifter--Worse.

[ 06-28-2003, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[Luvian]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Evil Bard, huh? Well, let's see, two Bards is a bit much (If you want to do the Bard thing, do it right--party of 6 Bards), so let's say you've got Marilyn Manson, Edwin, Jan. Your Wizard spells and Thieving abilities are more than adequately covered there, but you have no Priest and only half a Tank. I suggest Korgan, Anomen, and Jaheira. You've got 1 Tank, 2 Backup Tanks, 1 Wizard, 2 Backup Wizards, a Thief, and good solid representation on both halves of the Priest Scroll. The entire party is Evil/Neutral. I hope you don't mind trying to Romance Jaheira.... (Note: CN Anomen has completely different dialogues in ToB from the LG Anomen. No more "Ill-concieved group!")

I'm not sure about Jaheira. I've played her to death, and she is not very interesting in her banters. She would seem to be a lot too serious for this group...

Isn't there a character with better banters to add to this group?

[ 06-29-2003, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[Minchandre]

Take Yoshi with you! I recall he and Hear'Dalis (sp?) having some fun ones...

[D*Ranged]

Originally posted by Luvian: I'm not sure about Jaheira. I've played her to death, and she is not very interesting in her banters. She would seem to be a lot too serious for this group... Isn't there a character with better banters to add to this group? [/QB]

Minsc and Jan. Watch the fun as Jan tries to steal Boo off Minsc!