F22 Raptors! Bad ass jets - saw 2 today

[Sever]

I'm not much into jets and stuff, but the A-10 is COOL. I always thought they were ground attack jets and not suited for dogfighting though. Has anyone got a pic?

[Bozos of Bones]

A-10s aren't gonna win a dogfight, but they sure are gonna survive it. It can fly really slow, and is really maneuverable while doing it. And it has tough armor. It can both deliver and tak a big punch, and still be repairable for further duties. And yes, it is COOL! But for some reason, I prefer large, towering fortresess, like the Specter gunship. There's something about the moment when you realise that it's not an eclipse [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 04-16-2006, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: Bozos of Bones ]

[Felix The Assassin]

The A-10 Thunderbolt. Some people thinks it's cool, others shiver in their breeches, while others complain it's a device that delivers death and fires depleated uranium ammunition. The USMC, and the British despise the A-10, they have incured more casualties from the thunderbolt, than the enemy itself! I have ingrained in memory cell 6, the British soldiers waving the Union Jack into the sky, while the USAF A-10 made it's third letahl starfe over their convoy of Warriors, and light Lancer's. Every radio channel was hot trying to get the bastard to wave off, to include his own ground controller.


The F-16 is currently in the C/D block 40/42 and block 50/52 configuration. It will remain the protector of the homeland borders, and continue to fight in other areas of the world.


At one point, the USAF wanted to mothball the A-10, and use the F-16 in ground support role for USA units. It really never worked out, and the A-10 remains on the forefront of ground support. The design is awesome, composed of ballistic kevlar and aircraft alloys. Twin engine, seperate controls, twin ailrons, and twin rudders. They have returend to base with 2/3 wing missing, 1 engine missing, holes straffed throughout the frame..etc.
The F-16 is a multi-functional platform, single seat, single engine, multi-role strategic fighter aircraft. They can be seen patrolling the USA national airspace from their highly remote airbases, on a daily basis. They also see daily action under the GWOT campaign.

My favorite is the one that is being replaced by the Raptor. The F-15 to date is still the "Quickest" strike fighter from the deck to 50,000ft. Twin engine, extreme thrust, and can go vertical!


And finally, yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

[machinehead]

[ 04-16-2006, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: machinehead ]

[Bozos of Bones]

The incident Felix refers to is very old. See, in the early days(by days I mean the first 30 years) the Thunderbolt II had very spartan equipment. Virtually no extra equipment, no cameras, alternative imagers, GPS, ID pods, laser targeting pods or anything. They just had a 30mm chaingun(the plane was built for the gun, not the other way around), sidewinders and rocket pods/cluster bombs. After this and some more friendly fire incidents involving the Thunderbolts II, they were refitted with alot of new gizmos, and they are still receiving new things.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by Bozos of Bones: The incident Felix refers to is very old. See, in the early days(by days I mean the first 30 years) the Thunderbolt II had very spartan equipment. Virtually no extra equipment, no cameras, alternative imagers, GPS, ID pods, laser targeting pods or anything. They just had a 30mm chaingun(the plane was built for the gun, not the other way around), sidewinders and rocket pods/cluster bombs. After this and some more friendly fire incidents involving the Thunderbolts II, they were refitted with alot of new gizmos, and they are still receiving new things.

Very old indeed! Almost ancient compared to today!

March 29, 2004
Release Number: 04-03-51


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


A-10 Friendly Fire Investigation Completed


MacDill AFB - The investigation into a March 23, 2003 friendly fire incident between U.S. forces is complete. The investigation was thorough and deliberate, and has the concurrence of the CENTCOM leadership.

A full copy of the report is available at www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/newsfeatures.asp

The investigation, ordered by U.S. Central Command and conducted by U.S. Air Forces, Central Command, thoroughly examined the circumstances surrounding an incident involving a U.S. A-10 aircraft firing on a company of U.S. Marines in An Nasiriyah, Iraq.

The investigation revealed that several factors contributed to this tragic event, including problematic communications links between U.S. forces and a battle plan that, due to unforeseen circumstances, changed as the situation unfolded.

The investigation determined that the pilots involved acted appropriately based on the information they possessed at the time of the incident.

The decision on possible administrative or disciplinary action, if any, with respect to any Marines involved, was deferred to Commander, Marine Corps Central Command.

A total of 18 Marines were killed and 17 were wounded. Eight of the deaths were verified as the result of enemy fire; of the remaining 10 Marines killed, investigators were unable to determine the cause of death as the Marines were also engaged in heavy fighting with the enemy at the time of the incident.

Of the 17 wounded, only one was conclusively determined to have been hit by friendly fire.
Three Marines were wounded while inside vehicles that received both friendly and hostile fire, and the exact sequence and source of their injuries could not be determined.

U.S. Central Command mourns the loss of life and regrets the injury of our servicemembers resulting from this tragic event.


__________________________________________________ _______
'I never want to hear that sound again'

Five British soldiers have died under 'friendly fire'. Yesterday as General Richard Myers apologised for the three deaths caused by the US, saying it would be his 'quest' to ensure it did not happen again, the first full account emerged of the tragic incident in which a A-10 tankbuster fired on two British armoured vehicles

Audrey Gillan with the Household Cavalry in Iraq
Monday March 31, 2003
The Guardian

They will never forget the sound of the guns. A cross between a moan and a roar, a fierce rattling of heavy rounds of 30mm canon fire from two A10 Thunderbolts flying low overhead. Aircraft that shouldn't have been in the British-controlled area, "cowboying" at just 500ft and looking for something to have a crack at.

Last Friday morning, two American pilots turned their guns on a convoy of five British vehicles from the Household Cavalry, killing one man just three days shy of his 26th birthday, injuring four others and wiping out two armoured reconnaissance vehicles from the squadron's Two Troop. Two Iraqi civilians, waving a large white flag, were also killed.

Coloured smoke signs were sent up to indicate that they were friendly troops but it didn't stop the attack. The planes came back a second time, seriously injuring those who had managed to scramble out of their vehicles with only superficial wounds. The gunner, Corporal Matty Hull, however, was the victim of a direct hit into his gun turret.

The men in the Scimitars were screaming over the radio "stop the friendly fire, we are being engaged by friendly fire" and "pop smoke, pop smoke". The forward air controller, who liaises with coalition air forces to bring in fire missions, was shouting "check fire, check fire". Frantic calls were made to 16 Air Assault Brigade headquarters to find out what was going on. But no one seemed to know.

The A10s were about to take a third swing when they were told by the American air patroller working with the Household cavalry to stop firing.

Instead of providing air cover while helicopters came in to evacuate the casualties, they baled out.

The attack took place within the Household Cavalry's battlefield control line which means that everything in the air should be controlled by them and their embedded American air controller. The A10s were well out of their area and the matter is now being investigated amidst calls from some of the British troops that the pilots be prosecuted for manslaughter.

So far in this conflict, Britain has suffered more casualties from friendly fire, five, than from assaults by the Iraqis.

That morning's plan had been to use artillery, air and helicopter strikes against Iraqi positions in order to secure the area for future operations. D Squadron is an armoured reconnaissance unit and their job is to move in first and secure locations before other troops move in.

You could hear the battle over the radio, with the guns rattling down the airwaves. The squadron leader's Spartan vehicle narrowly missed a hit by two mortars, a procedure known as bracketing. The whistling and explosion cannot be heard in these vehicles but the tremor of the earth could.

The two Scimitars had been probing a road, checking for landmines, enemy locations, assault batteries.

At this point, Two Troop was given orders to move forward. Squadron leader Richard Taylor said: "I remember saying 'move quickly through the urban area, as we will be vulnerable from civilians, make best speed, good luck'. I don't think I will be wishing anyone good luck again."

Ears pricked up as shouting came over the radio. At first it seemed like someone had just lost their rag. Then the full horror dawned. One of the vehicles had been hit, no two, and by "friendly call signs".

Manslaughter

They stood still, stopping what they were doing. At first they thought it was one lad, then another. Whoever it was, it didn't ease the twist of knots that started knitting themselves in their stomachs. Later, they learned it was Matty Hull, who aside from being a gunner was also a military instructor who was being considered for a posting to Sandhurst to train officers.

Amidst the grief, their anger could not be contained. All of D Squadron's vehicles are clearly marked, with fluorescent panels on the roofs, flags and other markings. It was something that the soldiers kept saying, over and over. "We spend all this money marking out our vehicles so this doesn't happen," one said. "If it was the heat of battle, shit happens. But it was clear daylight."

Another said: "As far as I am concerned, those two pilots should be done for manslaughter. There's no way on the planet that they couldn't see two vehicles, that they couldn't see the dayglo panel on the top."

Trooper Joe Woodgate, 19, the driver of the Scimitar in which Cpl Hull was killed, walked away with holes in his bulletproof vest and a tear in either side of his shirtsleeve where shrapnel entered and exited, without touching his arm. All the rest of his colleagues had to be evacuated to the hospital ship Argos.

"We were given this mission to go along and clear one of the furthest routes, a road running along between the river Euphrates and this village. We knew it was going to be pretty hairy because we had been bombing the shit out of the Iraqis all day," he said.

"I was moving along and for some reason, the wagon just stopped dead and these two massive sparks came flying into my cab. I turned round and the turret was just a well of fire behind me. There was fire everywhere. I tried to get out and my hatch was jammed. I was banging away at it for what seemed like a lifetime but it was probably only a few seconds. As soon as I saw the fire, I thought 'get the ■■■■ out of here'. I managed to get out and rolled on the floor. I didn't realise that it was the Americans that had hit us.

"I remember seeing the front wagon which had been hit and I remember seeing the people getting out of that and running for cover. I thought there must be ground troops coming to get us. I went pegging it after them and jumped in a ditch. That was when the American plane came round to do a second swoop on us. That ■■■■■■■ gun, I don't want to ever hear that again. It's like a cross between a moan and a roar it's that fast.

"Chris Finney helped people get out of the wagon, he was amazing. I didn't know what was going on at that point. We were in this ditch and I still didn't realise it was Americans. I didn't realise that Matty was still in the turret. So we ran back over to the wagons. The engineers who had been in our convoy were there helping with the casualties and getting them into their Spartan while they were under fire.

"By all accounts, I found Finney and he had a shrapnel wound all up his arse. Gerry knew exactly what needed to be done. I remember seeing him stand up and wave his arms in the air, trying to get these planes to stop.

"When I got out, I thought Matty had got out as well but when I was pegging it off after Gerry, I thought where's Matty and I looked behind me and the ■■■■■■■ wagon was just a mess man. It's weird because you are thinking, maybe if I had done things differently... I don't know why Matty couldn't get out. People said they remember hearing him on the radio but I don't remember a thing. In hindsight, you always think there's something else you could have done.

"I went back there on Saturday when they went to recover the vehicles and Matty's body but I wasn't allowed out of the vehicle until they held a service for him. Part of me thinks, I have already cheated death and I may be tempting fate by staying out here but they have moved me to squadron headquarters because I don't have a vehicle to drive anymore and I should be safe here."

The Scimitar was so badly ablaze it was still smoking the following morning, the palls of gray in the eyeline of every member of D Squadron. Fully loaded with ammunition, it had become an exploding tinderbox. Much of it, including its gun turret and its tracks, had melted.

The troops could do nothing but evacuate the casualties and leave the gunner's body behind. When daylight came, the squadron leader, a padre and a number of the troops returned to the scene to bring the body out. Chemical warfare suits had to be worn because of the threat from the depleted uranium used in the American weapons. A remembrance service yesterday was interrupted by the thuds of incoming Iraqi artillery and the padre saying, "and the Lord said, oh, that was a bit close, get down".

Afterwards, squadron leader Taylor said: "Militarily, it was a very successful operation that was marred by the tragic events that led to friendly fire casualties. To Mrs Hull, I would like to say that the hearts of the squadron are very much with her and her family today. Her husband did not die in vain. He was an immaculately professional soldier. He was highly regarded and immensely popular within the regiment, he will always be remembered for his smiley face and professional manner."

Trooper Joe Woodgate said. "I can't stop thinking about him. I can't stop thinking about how he died. He has a wife and everything. In a way I think it is unfair that he had to go and I got out."

[Bozos of Bones]

Holy crap! My apologies, Felix. I thought you referred to a much older incident, as I remember one from '91. This that I read just now is horrible, really. I wasn't aware that such an incident happened so recently.

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: quote: Originally posted by Jorath Calar: F-14 are still cooler than these... HIGHWAY TO THE DANGERZONE!!!

Hmm. Ancient technology never won any battles. [/QUOTE]Why am I remembering the Zulus and something about a Polish Cavalry (two seperate incidents, not them facing off against each other).

[Felix The Assassin]

Because you have never been in the Cavalry? Uhm, 3-7 CAV, 3ID, DIVCAV did a thunder run less than 3 years ago. I haved been honored to have been in all three Regiments, and have done numerous Cavalry charges, the last being in this millenium. Thou my steed was an M1A1, and we were not carrying the saber, we still conducted the charge. Thou you are using an example of modern vs ancient, the charge is what caused the disruption, (actually delayed the Germans, did not defeat them) Shock, Speed, and Volume. As you know, these are the same attributes we strive to achieve on the modern battlefield.

[Morgeruat]

Ah, but it was "ancient technology" vs "modern" and it triumphed, whether the cost is worth the prize is another topic entirely.