Backstab Damage: Clarification Required

Dace De'Briago · 05-08-2003, 02:53 PM

Hi there peeps.

I've been running a little experiement, and I'm trying to work out how exactly the backstab damage works for the game.

I know how its supposed to work:

(Backstab multiplier x damage roll) + magical weapon bonus + strength bonus...

Or something very similar to that... (is magical weapon bonus multiplied also?)

Now, this particular query gets interesting because I want to know how damage is calculated with a Kensai's damage bonuses applied.

The character in question is a L25 Fighter (Kensai)/L27 Thief. This should give him a bonus +8 to hit/damage.

However, I've used shadowkeeper to take his strength down to 9 to keep these calculations simple...

Weapon is dagger 4d+1 damage
Damage bonus (Kensai) +8 damage
Damage multiplier (thief) x5

Sooo.... lets say we had a maximum damage hit: 13 x 5 = 65 damage. So why did I just get 125 damage against a child inside the Temple of Ilmater? It's a little strange to say the least.

This will get even stranger by the end of the game when the character has 23 strength, so working out HOW this works NOW is pretty important.

Any ideas? help? suggestions? rants (go sixofspades

)?

lol, anyway, all ideas/calculations appreciated

Xen · 05-08-2003, 03:00 PM

IIRC STR bonus is not included

Raistlin Majere · 05-08-2003, 03:00 PM

perhaps a critical hit? the maximum would thus be 130, so you would have to hit...hmm...62.5 damage...hmmm...that cant be right...are you sure you hit exactly 125 points of damage?

btw, what the h*** do you think youre doing, stabbing children in the back?! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-08-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ]

Dace De'Briago · 05-08-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Raistlin Majere:
btw, what the h*** do you think youre doing, stabbing children in the back?! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Experimenting

Thats what I told the CPA, and thats what I will tell the court.

EDIT: Yes, I'm VERY sure about the damage being 125.

[ 05-08-2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Dace De'Briago ]

daan · 05-08-2003, 03:09 PM

Ask Jim the God of numbers

He once made a thread about the most damage you could do per backstab,..
it was a contest between a kensai/thief and a certain someone who now and then gets a +200 Damage bonus [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Guess who won

Anywayz, Jim knows 'cause he tested it and tested it thouroughly [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: I believe he had to raise the HP of some poor storekeep to 800 just so that he could survive the immense blow [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[ 05-08-2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: daan ]

Sparhawk · 05-08-2003, 03:11 PM

*LOL* leave to a walesian to backstab a poor kid in the back....I´m a dane I usually go for the BURN/FIGHT/KILL/RAPE -thing *LOL*

......It´s interesting though...seeing that backstab does have a function....I usually don´t play a thief....but a mage or druid so I don´t know much about it....perhaps I should try it out

daan · 05-08-2003, 03:22 PM

Not sure if its helpfull .. but here goes:

WARNING ! Post contains a huge ToB-NPC spoiler !!

ADD: This small excerpt from the post might help you without spoiling anything

(Using a +6 staff that deals +12 crushing damage and additional 1d4 piercing damage)
18 base from staff, 4 from attacking an unarmed individual, 6 from weapon proficiencies and 2 from the gauntlets which makes for 30 damage. Multiplying this by 5 for the quintuple backstab makes 150 damage. Add the +14 strength damage bonus gives 164, and double this for a critical hit and we have our magic 328 damage. Then add the full +4 piercing damage making 332, and finally add 200 for the Deathbringer Assault. 532 damage!!!

[ 05-08-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: daan ]

Rataxes · 05-08-2003, 03:28 PM

Backstabs are currently not working out at all in my game. Just a few days ago my Elven F/T/M wielding the Blade of Roses with ++ in Long Swords and 19 STR experienced a non-critical quintiple backstab of 97.

My real max damage with this setup should be 5 x (8 + 3 + 2 + 1) + 7 = 77, so obviously something's wrong here. No monsters have negative resistance to slashing damage that I'm aware of, so that couldn't possibly be the cause.

Raistlin Majere · 05-08-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rataxes:
My real max damage with this setup should be 5 x (8 + 3 + 2 + 1) + 7 = 77, so obviously something's wrong here. No monsters have negative resistance to slashing damage that I'm aware of, so that couldn't possibly be the cause.

kinda weird, how backstab works, though im sure theres a perfectly logical answer to it(even if no-one knows it).

EDIT: the only explenation i can think of is that the str bonus is added to the damage before the backstab multiplication, thus making a max of 105 damage for your character. this would also make sense since it would be pretty realistic that the strenght with which you thrust your weapon into your foes back would count with the actual hit, not something that hits after the actual BS.

[ 05-08-2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ]

Raistlin Majere · 05-08-2003, 03:46 PM

never mind, after reading Jims post, it appears to work just as it should.

05-08-2003, 02:53 PM	#1
Dace De'Briago Silver Dragon Join Date: December 28, 2002 Location: Wales Age: 45 Posts: 1,617	Hi there peeps. I've been running a little experiement, and I'm trying to work out how exactly the backstab damage works for the game. I know how its supposed to work: (Backstab multiplier x damage roll) + magical weapon bonus + strength bonus... Or something very similar to that... (is magical weapon bonus multiplied also?) Now, this particular query gets interesting because I want to know how damage is calculated with a Kensai's damage bonuses applied. The character in question is a L25 Fighter (Kensai)/L27 Thief. This should give him a bonus +8 to hit/damage. However, I've used shadowkeeper to take his strength down to 9 to keep these calculations simple... Weapon is dagger 4d+1 damage Damage bonus (Kensai) +8 damage Damage multiplier (thief) x5 Sooo.... lets say we had a maximum damage hit: 13 x 5 = 65 damage. So why did I just get 125 damage against a child inside the Temple of Ilmater? It's a little strange to say the least. This will get even stranger by the end of the game when the character has 23 strength, so working out HOW this works NOW is pretty important. Any ideas? help? suggestions? rants (go sixofspades )? lol, anyway, all ideas/calculations appreciated __________________ Warning: Powergamer

05-08-2003, 03:00 PM	#3
Raistlin Majere Ra Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: Finland Age: 37 Posts: 2,323	perhaps a critical hit? the maximum would thus be 130, so you would have to hit...hmm...62.5 damage...hmmm...that cant be right...are you sure you hit exactly 125 points of damage? btw, what the h*** do you think youre doing, stabbing children in the back?! [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 05-08-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ] __________________ If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst forth at once in the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One. "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."

05-08-2003, 03:09 PM	#5
daan Silver Dragon Join Date: August 25, 2001 Location: - Age: 40 Posts: 1,644	Ask Jim the God of numbers He once made a thread about the most damage you could do per backstab,.. it was a contest between a kensai/thief and a certain someone who now and then gets a +200 Damage bonus [img]tongue.gif[/img] Guess who won Anywayz, Jim knows 'cause he tested it and tested it thouroughly [img]smile.gif[/img] EDIT: I believe he had to raise the HP of some poor storekeep to 800 just so that he could survive the immense blow [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [ 05-08-2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: daan ] __________________ <strong> Odi et Amo. Quare id faciam facisse requires ? Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior </strong><br /><br /><strong> Amantem cogit amare magis, sed bene velle minus </strong>

05-08-2003, 03:11 PM	#6
Sparhawk Quintesson Join Date: June 2, 2001 Location: In the oldest monarchy - Denmark Age: 47 Posts: 1,071	LOL leave to a walesian to backstab a poor kid in the back....I´m a dane I usually go for the BURN/FIGHT/KILL/RAPE -thing LOL ......It´s interesting though...seeing that backstab does have a function....I usually don´t play a thief....but a mage or druid so I don´t know much about it....perhaps I should try it out __________________ "Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius. There was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world. Hither came Conan, the cimmarian, sword in hand. It is I, his chronicler who knows well his saga. Now let me tell you of the days of high adventure!" "Unleash the Casey!" "Make no mistake, should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be looking at an outcome that will have a finality, that is beyound your comprehension. And you will not counting the days or the months or the years, but milleniums in a place with no doors!"

05-08-2003, 03:22 PM	#7
daan Silver Dragon Join Date: August 25, 2001 Location: - Age: 40 Posts: 1,644	Not sure if its helpfull .. but here goes: WARNING ! Post contains a huge ToB-NPC spoiler !! ADD: This small excerpt from the post might help you without spoiling anything (Using a +6 staff that deals +12 crushing damage and additional 1d4 piercing damage) 18 base from staff, 4 from attacking an unarmed individual, 6 from weapon proficiencies and 2 from the gauntlets which makes for 30 damage. Multiplying this by 5 for the quintuple backstab makes 150 damage. Add the +14 strength damage bonus gives 164, and double this for a critical hit and we have our magic 328 damage. Then add the full +4 piercing damage making 332, and finally add 200 for the Deathbringer Assault. 532 damage!!! [ 05-08-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: daan ] __________________ <strong> Odi et Amo. Quare id faciam facisse requires ? Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior </strong><br /><br /><strong> Amantem cogit amare magis, sed bene velle minus </strong>

05-08-2003, 03:00 PM	#2
Xen Symbol of Moradin Join Date: June 5, 2002 Location: Slovenia,Ljubljana Age: 37 Posts: 8,554	IIRC STR bonus is not included

05-08-2003, 03:28 PM	#8
Rataxes Symbol of Cyric Join Date: November 17, 2002 Location: Sweden Age: 39 Posts: 1,359	Backstabs are currently not working out at all in my game. Just a few days ago my Elven F/T/M wielding the Blade of Roses with ++ in Long Swords and 19 STR experienced a non-critical quintiple backstab of 97. My real max damage with this setup should be 5 x (8 + 3 + 2 + 1) + 7 = 77, so obviously something's wrong here. No monsters have negative resistance to slashing damage that I'm aware of, so that couldn't possibly be the cause. __________________ [img]\"http://atlas.walagata.com/w/rataxes/ymca3.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />I want <b>YOU!</b>

05-08-2003, 03:46 PM	#10
Raistlin Majere Ra Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: Finland Age: 37 Posts: 2,323	never mind, after reading Jims post, it appears to work just as it should. __________________ If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst forth at once in the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One. "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."

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