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Old 02-11-2005, 05:20 AM   #41
Callum
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Join Date: October 21, 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC
Age: 36
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Maybe the guy's going overboard... But he's got the right idea.

The thing that shocked me most in all the articles wasn't any "inhumane" measures taken by the sheriff... It was the fact that prisons are required by law to have cable TV! Many many honest, hard-working people can't afford cable TV, but those who have murdered, raped, etc have it by law! I myself only got cable a couple of years ago, and my family is not poor.

Porno, cable TV, weight rooms... I'm not an expert, but I'd hazard a guess at them not being among those "inalienable rights".

When I was a kid, if I did something wrong, I was punished. I was shouted at, sent to my room without supper, grounded, and if it was something pretty bad, I was smacked. I am convinced it has made me a better person. A friend of mine was caught by his parents doing cannabis (for the third time). His mother went out the next day and came home with a complete, expensive, Michael Jordan basketball kit. How does this make sense? Sure enough, within two weeks he was back on the pot, and is now taking ecstacy every weekend.

It's the same thing, in my mind, with how prisons seem to be. "Look how nice we are to you. Seeing as we've done you this great big favour, do you think you could do one for us, and not kill anyone again?"

Prisons here are hell holes. We still have capital punishment, even for relatively minor crimes, like possession of 100g of marijuana. Look at which country has the higher crime rates.

And for the record, while poverty and a hard life may drive people to petty theft and other minor crimes... It does not drive them to murder or rape. That comes from the person themselves.
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Old 02-11-2005, 05:25 AM   #42
Dreamer128
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Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by Callum:
Maybe the guy's going overboard... But he's got the right idea.

The thing that shocked me most in all the articles wasn't any "inhumane" measures taken by the sheriff... It was the fact that prisons are required by law to have cable TV! Many many honest, hard-working people can't afford cable TV, but those who have murdered, raped, etc have it by law! I myself only got cable a couple of years ago, and my family is not poor.
It gets worse. Many US prisons pay a fortune to get black-and-white televisions manufactered, because they don't want their cons to get colour television. I guess it looks bad with the voters. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 02-11-2005, 05:43 AM   #43
Callum
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Join Date: October 21, 2004
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*blinks and shakes head*

*regrets doing the above, as it makes my headache worse*
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Old 02-11-2005, 07:56 AM   #44
Lady Sedai
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The only comment I have about that long post of "people against the sherriff", Tom, is that there's a good possibility that those complaining are either family of the inmates or political opponents who will try and drag the man down just to win the election against him.

I'm not saying there aren't some complaining who, like some who've expressed their opinions here, have a legitimate concern that the sherriff is going too far, but something tells me that those are few and far between...that the majority in that county/state have no problems with how the place is being run.

Of course, I can't prove my "theory" at this point, but that's what it usually turns out to be in such cases. [img]smile.gif[/img] Just food for thought about all those "negatives" in your post.
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Old 02-11-2005, 09:03 AM   #45
Cerek
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Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lady Sedai:
The only comment I have about that long post of "people against the sherriff", Tom, is that there's a good possibility that those complaining are either family of the inmates or political opponents who will try and drag the man down just to win the election against him.

I'm not saying there aren't some complaining who, like some who've expressed their opinions here, have a legitimate concern that the sherriff is going too far, but something tells me that those are few and far between...that the majority in that county/state have no problems with how the place is being run.

Of course, I can't prove my "theory" at this point, but that's what it usually turns out to be in such cases. [img]smile.gif[/img] Just food for thought about all those "negatives" in your post.
That was my first thought also, Lady Sedai, but the more I read the article, the more legitimate the complaints seemed to be. The accusations of retaliation might be a bit overblown - then again they may not.

We had a crooked sheriff in my hometown for over 20 years. He finally got convicted for buying votes and was sent to prison. The guy that became sheriff after him was a very popular person. He had been a Ranger with the local Forest Service for several years and was well-liked by most everyone. Of course, he didn't really have a hard act to follow when it came to being popular as sheriff. Most of the town was disgusted with the previous sheriff, so it was only natural that they were happy with him. When he won the office, he said he wasn't interested in making a second career as the sheriff and he wouldn't run for re-election. But 4 years later, he changed his mind. Most people didn't mind because he was still very popular. But when he came up for re-election a second time and won a 3rd term as sheriff, some people started remembering the comment about "not wanting to make a second career" - yet he seemed to be doing just that. There were also rumors from employees within the sheriff's department that he was getting a bit paranoid and overbearing towards employees that disagreed with him or his decisions. One of the girls that operated the 9/11 switchboard also worked as a courier for the hospital where I worked and she told me several incidents the sheriff had done within the department that the general public didn't know about.

The point is that, once this guy got a "taste" of the power and popularity of his office, he didn't want to give it up and he got very vindictive in trying to defend his position. In the last election before he retired, he finally HAD decided he wasn't going to run for re-election again. But he STILL put his name in the primary election - JUST to keep one of his former deputies from getting the chance to run for sheriff. The guy had no intention of being re-elected - but he wanted to make sure this deputy that he had had a personal dispute with didn't have a chance to get elected either.

The point is...as much as I admire some of the actions taken by the sheriff in Arizona...I have seen first-hand the type of mentality described by his former associates exhibited by somebody I would never have suspected of acting that way.

I'm sure there is a fair amount of half-truths and exaggeratioins being made by his adversaries also, but the criticism of the SWAT units can't be denied. It's obviously public record that he disbanded these units and then applied for a grant when no unit was in place. Those accusations can't really be denied.

Also, the sheriff here that became "power hungry" was about the same age as this guy. Given his defense of his Tent Jail, I can certainly believe at least some of the accusations about retaliation within the department are also true.
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Old 02-11-2005, 08:14 PM   #46
Felix The Assassin
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Join Date: September 27, 2001
Location: Orlando, FL
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Quote:
Originally posted by Link:
quote:
Originally posted by Felix The Assassin:
quote:
Originally posted by Link:
quote:
Originally posted by Gangrell:
quote:

He said Wednesday that he told all of the
inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents
too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any
crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"
He couldn't have said it better. [/QUOTE]Hmpf.. I think it's a stupid argument. What the hell does Iraq have to do with anything. [/QUOTE]Let's see if you can make the link here.
Both are in the desert.
Both are hot places.
Both parites are living in severe, harsh conditions.
One group signed a dotted line, and swore an oath.
The other group broke an oath and walks a dotted line.
[/QUOTE]Ok, Felix, let the military mind of yours go for a while and try to see it from my viewpoint, okay? Iraq has nothing to do with the way federal prisons work. Prisoners are not comparable to soldiers in Iraq. We know you guys are in Iraq, and we know that you're having a hard time, but there's no need to bring it up every time! It's like each time someone complains about America, the immediate answer is "Look at Iraq! Look at how good we are being to the world!" That's not even an argument, let alone a good one!
[/QUOTE]Link, Link, take off that overstarched shirt, and loosen up that tie. You are starting to experience what too much heat, and not enough oxygen will due to the body.

You see, back in the day, Vietnam era, it was "go to war or go to jail" luckily those days are over. But jail should not be a free ticket, me tinks every freakin jail in the country ought to adapt this as an SOP!

You see, long hard hot days of misery will either make or break a person. And the criminal mind is broken from the normal batch to begin with. Therefore, it must be broken again, and then trained and formed into a positive aspect of modern society. If not, then the person WILL NEVER be retrained! And will always be a 'menance' to society!
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Old 02-12-2005, 08:17 AM   #47
Jani
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Hope someone will have the energy to read all the way back here=)

I have few question you should think:

- Do you believe people can be rehabilitated? If not, what should we do woth them? Cause I donīt see no-one winning in keeping them locked up for good.

- Forced labour sounds effective, but isnīt it unfair competition with the companies offering the same jobs?

- What about financial crimes? You have been talking only about passion/hate crimes. Only the stupid criminals go to prison.

If compared, white collars do much more damage to society. They cause some of the powerty that causes loads of problems within the society. Still no one seems to think they should be sent to San Quentin IF caught and IF their lawyers actually looses. They can even corrupt society completely legal ways and that is okay cause itīs legal? Donīt say that something is bad/god if itīs legal/not legal. Think for your self and threat peopleas you wish to be treaten.
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:27 AM   #48
Callum
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Join Date: October 21, 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC
Age: 36
Posts: 1,143
I bothered Jani! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

- Rehabilitation sounds a great idea... and sounds like it should work. But there's no reason why rehabilitation and punishment can't work together.

- I don't think forced labour is competition, I believe it is more focussed on jobs that others don't want to do, or providing free labour where it is needed...

You can't write laws so that noone can take advantage of them... And you can't convict anyone for making money in a legal way... Even if it does seem unfair. It is not "ok" that this happens, but what can you do? Concentrate your efforts on that which can be fought...
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