05-12-2004, 03:56 AM | #31 | ||||||||
Hathor
Join Date: February 18, 2002
Location: Vienna
Age: 42
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When I "prepare" for a war one thing I make sure is that every soldier has a gun Quote:
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Because they didn't attack! No matter what they intended by letting Hitler attack first and what they had planned to do if Hitler did or didn't. Every attack that brought a major player into the war was performed by either Germany or Japan. Germany attacked France, England and USSR and they declared total war and set their subs on American ships in the Atlantic. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. And to draw an analogy: Some people claim that the US military did know about the attack but let it happen so they'd have a reason for the war. Even if that had been the case, the fact remains that JAPAN attacked and started the war. In the end what counts are you're actions and not what youwere thinking while the other ones were doing.
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05-12-2004, 06:50 AM | #32 | ||||||||
Red Wizard of Thay
Join Date: September 7, 2003
Location: Israel
Age: 39
Posts: 877
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When I "prepare" for a war one thing I make sure is that every soldier has a gun 7. Quote:
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Because they didn't attack! No matter what they intended by letting Hitler attack first and what they had planned to do if Hitler did or didn't. Every attack that brought a major player into the war was performed by either Germany or Japan. Germany attacked France, England and USSR and they declared total war and set their subs on American ships in the Atlantic. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. And to draw an analogy: Some people claim that the US military did know about the attack but let it happen so they'd have a reason for the war. Even if that had been the case, the fact remains that JAPAN attacked and started the war. In the end what counts are you're actions and not what youwere thinking while the other ones were doing. [/QUOTE]1.Incorrect. When you say-"did not have lots of it until late in the war", you mean that in 22.6.1941 they did not have superior tanks. Stalin had 1000+ of t-34 and kv. How many tanks hitler had? 4000+ in total . stalin had 1000+ t-34 and kv, more than 5000 bt7, and in total stalin had 20000+ (!!!!) tanks, when the other tanks apart from the ones i mentioned above where at the very least equal to the german tanks. Another point. what do you mean by "lots"? Stalin had as much as he needed to. he had 5 times more than hitler. Stalin also had amphibe tanks that could swim. he had 4000 of them. t-40, t-37a and t-38. They could swim. A totally new idea for that time. Hitlers tanks were crap and too few. Stalins- lots and good. 2.?????. M and R lived in a dictatorship regimes. they could have not make any plans of their own. Besides stalin signed the map of "regions of influence". The pact was nothing understandable. It is a pact for agression, pact that his aim was to open a war. 4.my whole posts idea was to convince you that stalin wanted war. Not a "revolution", without assistance in that time it was doomed to failure. 5.My point is that i can prove it. 6.When stalin prepared for a war he prepared for an agressive war, not for a defensive one. Please tell me your sourse about 1 gun for 3 people in 22.6.1941. khurshchov's tales don't count. Stalin could have not throw his tanks. He had to prepare at least another 2 month. The tanks had no fuel, it was waaaaay behind them, no ammo etc. Hitler caught Stalin with pants down. Should he waited 60 more days then... krunch!! 8.Stalin backstabbed poland, took all the baltic countries and invaded finland, and took bukovina. I call it agression. I call it waging war. So they did not resist apart from finland. So? [ 05-12-2004, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: Black Baron ]
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05-12-2004, 08:40 AM | #33 |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: March 24, 2002
Posts: 10,215
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If Germany has won WW I. More than 3/4 of the world will be under the German Empire rule. assuming that German can gain all the conquered nation's colonies in most part of the world too.
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05-12-2004, 09:13 AM | #34 | |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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Stretch too far, fall out of your tree.
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05-12-2004, 09:23 AM | #35 | |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: March 24, 2002
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Stretch too far, fall out of your tree. [/QUOTE]Yes I think so, why? since Germany lost WW1. Germany have to give out it's colonies in China to Japan ( just for example ). Now let's turn things around. Germany won WW1. Those losing countries will have to give out their colonies to Germany. This is of course profitable to Germany in the long run. Imagine all the vast resources those colonies can give to Germany ( why do you think European Countries so eagerly want colonies in the first place? ) [ 05-12-2004, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Kakero ] |
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05-12-2004, 09:35 AM | #36 | |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
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Of course, global corporate capitalism is another story altogether... [img]smile.gif[/img]
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05-12-2004, 10:56 AM | #37 |
Manshoon
Join Date: May 4, 2004
Location: The Glorious South
Age: 62
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Hierophanr is right. The damage done by the war would have caused the colonies of these European nations to revert to self-rule.
In the end, the only countries that would have really made out would have been the ones not to take part in the war. Namely the US.
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05-12-2004, 11:01 AM | #38 |
Elite Waterdeep Guard
Join Date: May 6, 2004
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Age: 47
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Black Baron, i dont think you are correct in stating that communists caused ww1. All the experts on this subject, and I know where to look because I'm a historian myself, agree that the tensions in Europe leading to ww1 were based on nationalism or had economic backgrounds, not class-conflict.
First: France wanted the province of Alsace-Lotharingen back, which they had to give to Germany after the war of 1870 (which France so humiliatingly lost, this idea is known throughout french politics at that time asa the 'revanche', the revenge and all french politicians wanted to strike back at the germans that had humiliated them. Just some small sidenote: the unification of Germany reached its peak in Paris, where the german conquerors declared the German Second Empire in Versailles!) Second: The slavic people in the Austrian-Hungarian empire wanted independence Third: Germany wanted its share of colonies like most othern western european countries Fourth: Britain feared Germany would overtake them as the main supplier of industrial goods in the world, leaving them wirth less income from exports Most historians and certainly the most famous of them agree that these four points were the main reasons behind the war, that culminated into armed conflict after the assasination of the austrian-hungarian prince. By the way communism only started to become well popular after 1917. furthermore, I doubt your claim that russians didnt want communism, they might have been very disappointed at the way it came to fruit in russia, turning into a dictatorship. But before that, when the communists hadnt rose to power yet, the hatred of the russian peasants and workmen towards the almost feudal state of the country must have been large.
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05-12-2004, 11:13 AM | #39 |
Elite Waterdeep Guard
Join Date: May 6, 2004
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About the colony thinggie in WW2. just an example that its not working like that: conquer the mother-country and getting its colonies too.
Germany invaded and occupied the Netherlands, yet the Dutch largest, and very rich colony, The Dutch-East Indies became 'independent' under Japanese 'protection'. Same goes for Malaysia, and Vietnam.
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05-12-2004, 11:32 AM | #40 | |
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Join Date: March 24, 2002
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Of course, global corporate capitalism is another story altogether... [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Not really, we are talking what if here. yes, what if ( things that might happen ). As you say, Britain cutting it's ties with most of it's colonies. why? because the colonies is bleeding britain's of it's valuable monetary units. okay Now what if Germany have won, would the same problem will happen to Germany too? What if it does not happen to Germany? What if if Germany got a sound good economy plan? Remember, the question is what if. in what if, anything can happen. |
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