good non throwing dagger

[daan]

I'd agree with you were if not for quite a few BG-veterans saying that daggers shouldnt be underestimated .. I must be missing something, 'cause it doesnt look that great to me either

[Rataxes]

TorGal's Claw +3
This putrid claw was found on the corpse of TorGal, the leader of the trolls that invaded D'Arnisse Keep. TorGal was a powerful troll and this claw retains the abilities it had when you faced him in combat. It's length allows it to be used as a dagger but it's rancid smell would discourage all but the most dedicated.

STATISTICS:

Combat Ability: Each hit either lowers the target's strength by 3 for 60 seconds or slows the target for 10 seconds. A save versus poison at -4 negates either effect.
THAC0 +3 bonus
Damage 2D6 +3
Damage type: Piercing
Weight: 1
Speed Factor: 1
Proficiency Type: Dagger
Type: 1-handed
Unusable By: Cleric

[lasher]

Originally posted by karlosovic: personally I dont like the sound of odds like 20% chance to do something moderately good, only if they ALSO fail a save (which they'll probably make if they're worth using the effect on in the first place) turns out like 10% chance of 20% chance = not much chance of that stick to something that definately does something, even if it's just a +1 fire damage or something (elemental damage is always useful)

That's exactly why i ask the stats of dagger: to know if they are worth spending proficiencies for them.

[daan]

well,.. torgal's claw for one would be more than worh it

[Butterfingers]

Daggers rock, plain and simple. Stilleto of DeMarchess is better then it looks. Pixie Prick is quite good.

The key, like any other acillary weapon, is ApR. The more times you hit, the more chances you have to cause effect. Like with Celery Fury.

Don't underestimate the power of a good dagger.

[karlosovic]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Daggers rock, plain and simple. Stilleto of DeMarchess is better then it looks. Pixie Prick is quite good. The key, like any other acillary weapon, is ApR. The more times you hit, the more chances you have to cause effect. Like with Celery Fury. Don't underestimate the power of a good dagger.

I'm not knocking daggers, Im dubious of the value of mulitple contingencies.
EITHER % chance to effect OR give a save chance, not both.

say 20% chance to effect, and 25% chance to fail the save (against good enemy)

= 1/5 * 1/4.... = 1-in-20, and thats only from the times you actually hit with it. even if you had 5 ApR and you hit ALL of them, that's only once in 4 rounds, and 4 rounds is a long time in combat

[Raistlin Majere]

One thing i dont really understand is, why do warhammers and daggers have the same damage roll? You think a heavy hammer bashed into your face would do a wee little bit more damage than a dagger "in the gut". though, of course, i think it would be rather hard to stick a dagger into the gut through a full plate or some other armor. At least the warhammer should be able to hit hard enough to make a bump in the armor.

[Rataxes]

Originally posted by Raistlin Majere: One thing i dont really understand is, why do warhammers and daggers have the same damage roll? You think a heavy hammer bashed into your face would do a wee little bit more damage than a dagger "in the gut". though, of course, i think it would be rather hard to stick a dagger into the gut through a full plate or some other armor. At least the warhammer should be able to hit hard enough to make a bump in the armor.

Daggers are 1D4 while War hammers are 1D4 +1

[ 02-24-2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Klutz]

The base damage for "normal" daggers is 1D4. (So a normal "dagger +2" will do 1D4+2 damage.)
The base damage for "normal" warhammers is 1D4+1. (So a normal "warhammer +2" will do 1D4+3 damage.)

However, there are a couple of exceptional daggers and exceptional warhammers that have higher base damage.

The base physical damage for the returning throwing daggers Boomerang +2 and Firetooth +3 (not including magic bonuses and elemental damage bonuses) is 2D4. There is also at least one dagger out there with 1D6 base damage (I think Embarl's, whoever the person is you have to kill for Maevar who will give you his dagger if you spare his life.)
The base physical damage for the warhammers Dwarven Thrower +3, Hammer of Thunderbolts +3, and Crom Faeyr +5 (again, not including magic bonuses and elemental damage bonuses) is ALSO 2D4.

The existence of non-standard damage rolls is something to keep your eye on when examining weapons and selecting weapon proficiencies... some weapons have stats well above the standard for their type, like Boomerang and Firetooth. A few are just a hair above their usual type, like Carsomyr +5 and Warblade +4 roll 1D12 instead of the usual 1D10 for two-handed swords.

In response to the original question, in plain SOA I think the highest enchanted dagger is a straight +4 dagger (Boneblade?), the highest raw damage dagger is Firetooth (2D4+3, +1-2 fire damage), and several have interesting disabling abilities which have been covered above (of whom my favorite is probably Pixie Prick). Depending on what character you have wielding the dagger, the disabling daggers can be pretty handy... if you're striking enough with them each round you have a good overall chance of disabling your opponent. (EX: If your hold chance is 25% on one attack/rnd, it becomes a 44% chance on 2 attacks/rnd and a 58% chance on 3 attacks/rnd.) Once they are held/asleep in many cases you auto-hit from then on. There was another thread on the topic recently with more details.

[Jatelka]

Me like bone-blade!