Protagonist versus Elminster and Raistlin

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

The experience of age, the spellfire, and the fact that Elminster is part of the weave... As a Chosen of Mystra, he wields incredible power, as he is a guardian of magic itself. If he were to die unexpectedly, it would be very bad for everyone. Which is why he has so many layers of defense. Like allies.

[Dace De'Briago]

The thing is, both Raistlin and Elminster are permitted to draw on special kinds of magic because of their 'unique' status.

A fair contest to all participants would require the arena to be held on a separate plane/different planet where NO EXTERNAL FORCES would be able to interfere.

This would nullify the cheese of Spellfire, Weave, and Raistlins Godhood (and possibly the PCs if you want to argue that far into the future).

ALL participants would then be on an even keel, able to fight with magic as they see fit - with the most powerful actually prevailing.

See how a fair contest works

[theGrimm]

I sort of think such a battle would probably result in the destruction of everything for miles around before either Elminster, Raistlin or the protaganist where in danger.

So chances are they'd probably all just conjure a table, chairs and the Deck of Many things for a nice friendly game. In the middle of the field.

The REAL question is...who would cheat first?

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Dace De'Briago: The thing is, both Raistlin and Elminster are permitted to draw on special kinds of magic because of their 'unique' status. A fair contest to all participants would require the arena to be held on a separate plane/different planet where NO EXTERNAL FORCES would be able to interfere. This would nullify the cheese of Spellfire, Weave, and Raistlins Godhood (and possibly the PCs if you want to argue that far into the future). ALL participants would then be on an even keel, able to fight with magic as they see fit - with the most powerful actually prevailing. See how a fair contest works

You're all missing the point.
This is NOT a fair contest if you take away abilities given to the characters.
The question was, all things considered, could the PC beat Elminster? I'm not even considering Raistlin because I don't know much about him.
If you all feel the need to cripple and limit Elminster like that, the answer, to me, is obvious.
Elminster would win.
Otherwise you wouldn't have to suggest 'limiting external forces'

And the Weave is part of Faerun. It's not an external force. Take away Elminster's spellfire and you'd also take away the PC's ability to use magic. They'd have to be in an antimagic zone.

[Q'alooaith]

which Elminster can nullyfy instantly if I rember some of his ablitys.. (nb, this is ablitys stated here on this forum rather than whatever he might have)

Though if we're talking after the end of ToB evil ending Charname is effectivly already dead..

Though being the new lord of murder would have it's advantages realy in a fight.


Now a fun one would be an assasin, with a cloak of non detection (nothing in the game can target a sneaking theif with one of these on directly afaik) Then a scroll of Protechtion from magical energy or is it magic.. well either way, posion weapon, stealth backstab, stealth backstab, stealth backstab..

And so on, and while it'd have to get though any stoneskin's or other melee defences either could use.. or realy cheesy and cast PfME on both of them, instantly killing their power's and opening them up for all sort's of nasty nastys..

[Imrahil]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: You're all missing the point. This is NOT a fair contest if you take away abilities given to the characters. The question was, all things considered, could the PC beat Elminster?

You're forgetting The Rules again... [img]smile.gif[/img]

"a HUGE field, no cover 5X5 miles, Protagonist starts at max distance, or 2 miles away if melee. A party IS permitted, as are summoned creatures. There is NO limit to summoning (Besides what they can normally summon)"

amendment: "this assumes that they(all involved) can't summon their allies, ie the Khelben people, Mystra, etc. All are alone except for what they can summon (dire boars and planetars, not allies.)"

If you want a "fair" contest (whatever that might be), start a different imaginary battle under a different set of arbitrary rules... [img]smile.gif[/img]

- Imrahil

[Dundee Slaytern]

I still have this image of a blindfolded Elminister hopping around on one leg with both hands tied behind his back while waving a placard with his mouth that says, "Not Fair!".

A better question would be why would they even agree to this contest at all?

Anyhoo, my bet's on Elminister. He has the firepower, he has the experience; heck, he has the lack of naivety that the PC has.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Imrahil: quote: Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: You're all missing the point. This is NOT a fair contest if you take away abilities given to the characters. The question was, all things considered, could the PC beat Elminster?

You're forgetting The Rules again... [img]smile.gif[/img]

"a HUGE field, no cover 5X5 miles, Protagonist starts at max distance, or 2 miles away if melee. A party IS permitted, as are summoned creatures. There is NO limit to summoning (Besides what they can normally summon)"

amendment: "this assumes that they(all involved) can't summon their allies, ie the Khelben people, Mystra, etc. All are alone except for what they can summon (dire boars and planetars, not allies.)"

If you want a "fair" contest (whatever that might be), start a different imaginary battle under a different set of arbitrary rules... [img]smile.gif[/img]

- Imrahil [/QUOTE]I was chastising Dace here, not the original Rules. To suggest taking away spellfire would be absurd. The 'fight' itself is a little absurd, I think.

[Q'alooaith]

no one think the cheese would win out..


and the no allies is a fair fight, I mean if we're talking allies it turn's from a who would kick who's ass to a who has got more freind's willing to die for them.

Which is unfair since it's a fight between charname, elminster and rastlin..

I def think a scroll of PFME would be good, two at least to cast on rast and elm both... hheheheh, say cheese.. non detection cloak and assasin backstab cheese...

tone's of way's you could win the fight.. though you'd not kill emlinster since he's got all them trigger's and so on which cause him to be teliported away and so on..

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

::shakes head:: You're thinking in terms of the game. Don't talk about exploiting an ingame cheese if we're talking about two characters fighting. And Elminster has no small ability to listen and see hidden people, so it would depend on how high a level a rogue you are.

And how do you suggest using the scroll, anyway? Just walk up to them and read the scroll, and expect them to let you? Elminster can cast spells at a moment's thought, and he knows his way around a sword, too.

And yes, we also shouldn't forget about all of his contingencies, spell triggers, and Elminster's Evasion.