Spain PM-elect: Troops out of Iraq

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Gab: What really annoys me is that everyone seems to ignore me.

Who said that?

And Yorick, I'm sorry to say that I don't have facts on me but I've never heard of a single psephologist claiming people vote on single issues. I'm a political theory student and I'm quite well read on this issue, if few others sadly, and I can only say that that view point is not very highly regarded. Not much help I know as you want proof, I'm just saying that I from my experience as a student of this field its not accepted as being as simple as that by anyone I've ever heard of.

EDIT - great minds, great minds...

[ 03-17-2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Barry the Sprout ]

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Yorick: As for what is 'right' is it right to let a man beat his wife and kids to death, and do nothing while the courts fail to grant a warrant for his arrest?

And when you've 'stopped him' with a bullet and discover that it was actually her secret lover, we just say 'never mind, chalk it up to experience', right?

Dozens of black people were hung from trees surrounded by burning crosses with that mentality - I'm surprised that anyone still advocates it.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: quote: Originally posted by Gab: What really annoys me is that everyone seems to ignore me.

Who said that?

And Yorick, I'm sorry to say that I don't have facts on me but I've never heard of a single psephologist claiming people vote on single issues. I'm a political theory student and I'm quite well read on this issue, if few others sadly, and I can only say that that view point is not very highly regarded. Not much help I know as you want proof, I'm just saying that I from my experience as a student of this field its not accepted as being as simple as that by anyone I've ever heard of.

EDIT - great minds, great minds... [/QUOTE]Mate, sorry we didn't meet up while I'm in London...

Anyhow, I respect your view, and thanks for posting it. I would prefer to see proofs, as I've seen results that support either opinion.

What makes Americans and Europeans get out of bed and go and vote when 50% stay at home? Is one issue enough to galvanise them into action?

In nations like Australia which have compulsory voting, where someone's name is on the paper gives them a large number of votes due to the "donkey vote". Simply numbering the names in the order they appear.

I would think this is quite an unknown quanitity due to the nature of swinging voters and the many variables in a SECRET ballot. How many people vote for a person because they like how they look, and trust them, perhaps changing their mind at the booth?

How many get put off a person because of one issue, and so vote for anyone else?

Thanks for your P.O.V. though Barry. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

that DOES make them as bad as any terrorist.

See, skunk, you had me up to this part of your post. Then you went way over the top again. I don't like you comparing my leader to a terrorist. Now, I may disagree with your notiont that violence OR lawlessness is a bad thing, but I'm willing to take those points as they stand. They are not outrageous. But, comparing the US President to a terrorist, well, let's just say if you did it in my presence then I'd be next up on your list of people who use violence OR lawlessness.

It's that extra oomph, that OTT-ness of your posts that gets me. While I too sometimes do this for effect, it doesn't bite me in the ass like it does you because I'm, erm, well, a muppet, and who hates muppets? You, however, are a Skunk, and should watch out.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Skunk: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: As for what is 'right' is it right to let a man beat his wife and kids to death, and do nothing while the courts fail to grant a warrant for his arrest?

And when you've 'stopped him' with a bullet and discover that it was actually her secret lover, we just say 'never mind, chalk it up to experience', right?

Dozens of black people were hung from trees surrounded by burning crosses with that mentality - I'm surprised that anyone still advocates it. [/QUOTE]Have you ever witnessed domestic violence?

[Yorick]

In any case, Hussein was quite clearly the husband beating his kids. Unless you're suggesting someone else ruled Iraq for all those years?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Skunk: And because thousands of lives were lost as a result (and people are still dying in the ongoing conflict that they started), that DOES make them as bad as any terrorist.

Terrorist aim - kill as many civilians as possible and maximise collateral damage.
Democratic govts. - minimise civilian deaths and minimise collateral damage as much as possible.

How do these different intents equate the two evils with each other again?

Ever heard the saying "The lesser of two evils" Check it out. It's a useful view to recognise.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Gab: I fear that this was part of Al-Queda's plans. However, you Americans should know this: Most world leaders and people all around the world hate George Bush. That's one of the reasons the Spaniards got rid of their government was because it was too pro-Bush. Want proof? Go ask people on Ironworks from another country if they like Bush. Heck, I believe John Kerry's claims of foregn ministers supporting him. I'm saying this not because I hate the U.S.A. but because I'm very anti-Bush.

We all talked around and about your post without referencing you. Yes, either it was AQ's plans or it will show results that encourage them to use this tactic again. Yes, people hate GWB -- I doubt many leaders do -- once you meet someone face-to-face it's harder to hate them. Yes, 90% of Spainyards were against the war, which is probably why they ousted their leader. Who knows if Kerry's claims are right?

Otherwise, your post is irrelevant and irresponsible. It is not well-organized and contains too many varied themes without appropriate transitions and connections showing the relation amongst them. I suspect you of Anti-Americanism, and I bet you've got pinko propoganda under your mattress. And your sig name sucks -- I mean, "Gab" -- how trite. Oh, and you smell bad and your momma dresses you funny.

Feel better now???

[Yorick]

I just ignored it because of the line "most people". I can't stand it when people use the moral weight of unknown others to justify their own opinions. Who are these "most people" Let them speak for themselves.

Otherwise have the balls to stand up on your own opinion and simply say "I can't stand Bush".

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Skunk: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: As for what is 'right' is it right to let a man beat his wife and kids to death, and do nothing while the courts fail to grant a warrant for his arrest?

And when you've 'stopped him' with a bullet and discover that it was actually her secret lover, we just say 'never mind, chalk it up to experience', right?

Dozens of black people were hung from trees surrounded by burning crosses with that mentality - I'm surprised that anyone still advocates it. [/QUOTE]Have you ever witnessed domestic violence? [/QUOTE]Yes. Have you ever witnessed a lynch mob?
Ever wondered what it felt like to have your life and property threatened for something you never did?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm

It's ugly. The principle of "innocent until proven guilty" is simply too important to shed at whim. Justice belongs in the courts and should not be based upon hunches and a 'feeling'.