Gaza gunmen drag EU into Danish-Muslim blasphemy clash

[Morgeruat]

blog about free speach While that's probably not what anyone would expect me to agree with, but I do. In the case of this blog it's discussing the freedom to burn an American flag by an American citizen. (not entirely on topic but the point can be applied easily enough to the current topic)

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Kakero: I wonder how the christian world would react if someone draw a cartoon of jesus naked and rubbing backs with young boys?

How little you understand us. Out government has funded art projects to make sculptures of the Virgin Mary out of animal feces. Christian groups called it deplorable, but no one went and bought a flag to burn. Wanna see some cartoons lampooning Jesus? -- Just watch South Park. See, over here we have lives worth living, and better things to do than stand around acting like retards in front of the cameras for the rest of the world to see. (Um, of course Americans will act like retards if you pay them or put them on a reality show, but that's a different story.)

Article on the Piss Christ, FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

[ 02-03-2006, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Timber Loftis]

CNN has pictures of Muslim protests ranging from Palestine to Bangladesh. One trend I noticed is that it seems like the further eastward you go the less likely you are to find Muslim pyromaniacs. Seems like the ones in Asia just want to rally and shout and pray, not buy Danish products and burn them.

I still haven't seen the cartoons that started this fiasco, anyone got a linky for me?

[Morgeruat]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=21127

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by Sir Degrader: I'm VERY hesitant to bring this up, but is it the fundamental differences in the religions that causes this strife? Please PM me if you know Islam, I'm quite curious, and sick of both sides throwing vitirolic statements around.

Sorry, I haven't got the time to write you a PM on this issue, but the basic answer is that it depends on who you talk to.

All my moderate Muslim friends claim that such acts can never be justified, many others claim the opposte. There is no right answer due to the stupidity of trying to base your entire life around ambiguous texts.

If you want an "anti" view then you could do worse than start with Jihad Watch. Many of the posters are monkeys and deserve ignoring, but the founder knows how to string a decent argument together and it's worth reading some of his articles. Also The Religion of Peace.

For a neutral view, something like this Wikipedia article is a good start, with plenty of links at the bottom.

As for a "pro-view", I haven't got any links at the moment, but trust me that there is plenty out there. Some focus on saying that the Qu'ran has been interpreted wrongly whilst most focus on the rather undeniable fact that the people of the Middle-East have been shat on by the West unlike any other region in the world and the anger is therefore reactionary.

Not a bad series of articles here explaining the rise of political Islam.

Those with a bit of perspective however, will recall the total lack of political influence that political Islam had until the late 60s and the humiliation of Egypt and pan-Arabism - this is not something intrinsic to Islam. There is also a direct correlation between political clampdowns and the rise of political Islam - the brutal governments we help keep in power drive political discussion into the only safe public forum left: the mosque.

My personal belief is that a distorted Islam is used as a tool to incite the uneducated masses. It could do with an update and it takes itself too seriously in my view, but there's not much intrinsically worse than any other religion in the Qu'ran. All the supplementary traditions and texts are the real problem, and they are largely a function of the ultra-strict patriarchal society in which it developed.

If you want to go into this in detail, will be happy to respond to any questions you have via PM, although I don't claim to be a particular expert.

[ 02-03-2006, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[Timber Loftis]

Some focus on saying that the Qu'ran has been interpreted wrongly whilst most focus on the rather undeniable fact that the people of the Middle-East have been shat on by the West unlike any other region in the world and the anger is therefore reactionary.

Really? They might want to send Africa a memo on that issue, might increase their morale.

[Morgeruat]

Or the Native Americans, or Incans, Mayans and Aztecs or just about any other people indigenous to the Americas, Heck you could even throw in Australian Aboriginals.

[shamrock_uk]

Perhaps I should have said the Muslim world - how many Islamic terrorists have been from North Africa after all?

Still, we gave up on controlling and exploiting Africa a century ago, at least directly. The Middle-East on the other hand has been interefered with like nothing else during the last century.

[Memnoch]

The US and Britain have condemned the republication of the cartoons.

U.S. CONDEMNS CARTOONS . In the name of press freedom, more European newspapers ran controversial cartoons. Belgian newspaper De Standaard reproduced the pictures along with letters from readers in favor of publication. . The United States condemned the cartoons on Friday, siding with Muslims who are outraged that newspapers put press freedom over respect for religion. . "We ... respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable," said State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper. . Britain's newspapers have so far refused to publish the cartoons, earning them praise from Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. . "I believe the republication of these cartoons has been unnecessary, it has been insensitive, it has been disrespectful and it has been wrong," he said. . Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen met Muslim envoys to seek calm but said he could not apologize on behalf of the Jyllands-Posten newspaper which first published the images. . "Neither the Danish government nor the Danish nation as such can be held responsible for drawings published in a Danish newspaper," he said after the meeting. . Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Yuri Thamrin said the dispute pitted "the whole Islamic world vis-a-vis Denmark and vis-a-vis the trend of Islamophobia." . Up to 300 Islamic activists in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, rampaged in the lobby of a building housing the Danish embassy in Jakarta. . Shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is Greatest), they smashed lamps with bamboo sticks, threw chairs, lobbed rotten eggs and tomatoes and tore up a Danish flag. No one was hurt. . Source: Yahoo (click here) .

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: Perhaps I should have said the Muslim world - how many Islamic terrorists have been from North Africa after all? Still, we gave up on controlling and exploiting Africa a century ago, at least directly. The Middle-East on the other hand has been interefered with like nothing else during the last century.

Werent the bombers in Spain primarily from Morocco?