No more nasty, personal-attack sarcasm in posts, please - respect others - Page 3

Yorick · 11-29-2001, 10:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
people who try their utmost to follow his example and teachings are among the best people on the face of the earth. Sadly, not all who claim christianity are practicers of Jesus teachings, which is one reason people mock believers. Another reason is that they are actually lacking in real knowledge of what Jesus taught.

In this case it's the mockers who have no knowledge of what Jesus "taught". He only taught 11 or so tenets. What he did is why people follow him. Perfection is unattainable. A Christian is forgiven, not perfect.

quote:

I like watching/listening to quiz programmes and I am horrified by how often a simple question about a bible subject is met by a blank stare. I find it unbelieveable that this country can have gone from everyone knowing basic bible teachings/personalities to almost total ignorance during my lifetime. Its no wonder morals and standards and respect have virtually vanished.
Gosh! I sound just like my grandmother!

Can this not be an inditement on your country rather than the faith? Places and people are different.

Most bible students I know, know a great deal...

....about logos AND rhema

The written and spoken word that must be read and heard in harmony.

It's like watching a movie without sound. (or the other way round if one ignores logos) Nice pictures, but you only get half the story.

250 · 11-30-2001, 12:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
You know, I don't get this double standards stuff at all.

I've been reprimanded in the past. If some of the guys are friends with me is that a crime? I actually listen more to a subtler rebuke from a friend.

Rebukes are all relative.

The most stinging word I ever got was from Absynthe. Bummer that.

Could I perhaps ask in as gentle a tone as possible, that people get off my case?????

Do we have so few hours in the day that we have to scan every moderators post to ascertain whether enough moderatorship has been applied to someone we disagree with? There is such a thing as emails!! Not every communication is public.

I thought this forum was a place of enjoyment and communication, not poison laced arguments. If I wanted constant criticisms I'd get a wife. (Aussie wives are the most argumentative in the world according to a Singaporean paper I read yesterday... )

Anyhow, I've been posting in the I.W. BG forums of late - not here in ASB.

Getting back to why I came here in the first place. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yorick, I am sorry, it is crime to have friends

thats right, damnit. give him a break. I dont see the freaking point of this all. some people make me sick

KHaN · 11-30-2001, 01:57 AM

Maybe some people are confused about the fact that this is a moderated board. If you want anything goes type posting try MSN Slate. I've been blunt and mean in the past and let my personal views on people here be known without mincing words. Hey if I can behave anyone can [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] Memnoch you are doing a great job, I think you are the most level-headed mod I've seen on a forum. For what it's worth GJ.

Memnoch · 11-30-2001, 03:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by KHaN:
Maybe some people are confused about the fact that this is a moderated board. If you want anything goes type posting try MSN Slate. I've been blunt and mean in the past and let my personal views on people here be known without mincing words. Hey if I can behave anyone can [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] Memnoch you are doing a great job, I think you are the most level-headed mod I've seen on a forum. For what it's worth GJ.

Thanks, mate, it's good to be thanked once in a while. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Your self-control has been admirable, I have to take my hat off to you. It's often more mature to step back and let things slide than to jump in, no holds barred. Say hi to Moni for me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Silver Cheetah · 11-30-2001, 07:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 250:

Yorick, I am sorry, it is crime to have friends

thats right, damnit. give him a break. I dont see the freaking point of this all. some people make me sick

Sorry you're not feeling well, 250. Suggest you get yourself a sickbag, - very handy when one is feeling nauseous. I'd lend you mine - unfortunately, it's full to overflowing.......

Fljotsdale · 11-30-2001, 08:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ladyzekke:
I liked your post there F, but seeing that you are an athiest, must wonder... ?? You believe Jesus was a great man? Does not match up with being an athiest. Please I hope you weren't posting a spiteful sarcastic jab at Yorick. I'm figuring I'm misunderstanding you most likely, so just maybe rephrase what you meant so I can understand more clearly?

Ladyzekke - I meant every word of my post. Yes, I AM atheist, but that does not mean I have to denigrate Jesus! All the evidence indicates that he was a real person and the gospels show him to have been a man of great integrity, passion, and compassion. I admire and like him and try to follow his way of life and teachings to the best of my limited ability. I'm not specially good at it!

But, imo, he was a man. Imo, the bible and Jesus himself, indicate that he was NOT and never will be, GOD. I trust the bible as a reliable RELGIOUS and SOCIAL history of the Jews and early followers of Jesus. I believe that if you accept Jesus as the fulfillment of bible prophecy you have to reject any belief in evolution of the human race and ACCEPT as truth the opening chapters of the bible (Adam & Eve). I am not prepared to do that.

Genuine believers, of whatever faith, who earnestly strive to live by the high standards of their faith are, to my mind, admirable. It takes courage and high morals to be a footstep follower of Jesus, and those who do their utmost to follow his standards are worth a great deal to the human race.

As for making a spiteful or sarcastic jab at Yorick - no. Why should I? I say what I believe, always (well - mostly. I'm far from perfect, lol! I have been known to tell what are called 'white lies', and I am sometimes 'economical' in the amount of a truth I tell).

I will definitely laugh at people who believe any sort of thing without bothering to check on whether it is true (not just religion, anything); and people who have the facts in front of their eyes and don't choose to see it annoy me into jumping rage - but I appreciate that from your side it looks like I am doing the same!. Which is why Yorick and I got so infuriated with each other at times in our religious discussions!

But we did not fall out over religion and I have neither the inclination nor a reason to make fun of him.

Clarified? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Fljotsdale · 11-30-2001, 08:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:

Can this not be an inditement on your country rather than the faith? Places and people are different. Most bible students I know, know a great deal...

....about logos AND rhema The written and spoken word that must be read and heard in harmony.

It's like watching a movie without sound. (or the other way round if one ignores logos) Nice pictures, but you only get half the story.

Darn! Blasted thing only picked up part of what you wrote.... I think. I'll check in a minute.....

Anyway.... yes, of course it is the country, to a certain extent. More specifically, the education system and the fact that people have stayed away from church in droves since WW2. It wouldn't matter so much if we had still taught our children to have the standards religion preached...... honesty, integrity, sexual morality, respect for fellow humans.... etc.
But also, partly the religion IS to blame.... not the 'the faith' but the churches/priests/pastors/popes/archbishops etc, because it was becoming increasingly clear to people that they themselves did not live according to what they taught. I was brought up as a RC and my ignorance of the bible was stunning, though my knowledge of church 'fairy tales' was vast! I also observed the hypocrisy of nuns and priests at first hand. I was not alone in that. After WW2, people were less inclined to overlook such things, and more inclined to use their own judgement. No bad thing either! But they chucked out the baby with the bathwater, imo.

Here is the other bit of your post[b]:

quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:

In this case it's the mockers who have no knowledge of what Jesus "taught". He only taught 11 or so tenets. What he did is why people follow him. Perfection is unattainable. A Christian is forgiven, not perfect.

I thought that was what I said! About the mockers having no knowledge, I mean.
No, no-one is perfect. The christian is just supposed to try harder! When Jesus rebuked his disciples it was clear he expected them to alter the behaviour he rebuked them for. Yes, he forgave may falls on their part, but anyone who has read the whole of the NT, as I know you have, will see that eventually they DID learn to behave in a way acceptable to Jesus.
I always remember what he said to the woman taken in adultery as well.... 'Go your way and sin no more.' A person cannot claim to be christian if they continually commit 'sin' in the expectation that they will be forgiven. For example, in Revelation Jesus shows that liars and adulterers and fornicators will end up in 'the lake of fire'. Yet many who claim to be christian, including clergymen, continually practice those things. It makes me wonder if they truly believe the bible teaching on these things?

KHaN · 11-30-2001, 08:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Memnoch:
Your self-control has been admirable, I have to take my hat off to you. It's often more mature to step back and let things slide than to jump in, no holds barred. Say hi to Moni for me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Your welcome bro...and your right about backing off. It takes a bigger person to back away from a fight (specially a good one [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ) something I wasn't taught when I was growing up. I admire people who can.
I'll tell Moni hi but I don't know if she will hear me we are both so completely addicted to Wiz8 [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img] that I'm looking into getting his/hers IV bags...eating dinner takes to long...important minutes that could be spent on gametime!

Memnoch · 11-30-2001, 09:03 AM

F, I think you have to accept that both of you fell out over religion - Yorick did, at least. No fault of either of you - it's a very divisive topic to explore in depth, even if done in person. That's why I never talk about religion or politics in depth - because I don't know how the other person is reacting to what I'm saying.

I think it would be best if both of you dropped the religion debate. You must both be sick of repeating yourselves by now. Surely you know each others' point of view to the most minute detail and know that no amount of futile debate will cause each of you to change your minds. All you will both do is get on the carousel once again.

Memnoch · 11-30-2001, 09:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by KHaN:

Your welcome bro...and your right about backing off. It takes a bigger person to back away from a fight (specially a good one [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ) something I wasn't taught when I was growing up. I admire people who can.

But you've managed to do it, and for that I respect you. And I'm not just saying that - I mean that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

11-29-2001, 10:15 PM	#21
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 53 Posts: 9,246	quote: Originally posted by Fljotsdale: people who try their utmost to follow his example and teachings are among the best people on the face of the earth. Sadly, not all who claim christianity are practicers of Jesus teachings, which is one reason people mock believers. Another reason is that they are actually lacking in real knowledge of what Jesus taught. In this case it's the mockers who have no knowledge of what Jesus "taught". He only taught 11 or so tenets. What he did is why people follow him. Perfection is unattainable. A Christian is forgiven, not perfect. quote: I like watching/listening to quiz programmes and I am horrified by how often a simple question about a bible subject is met by a blank stare. I find it unbelieveable that this country can have gone from everyone knowing basic bible teachings/personalities to almost total ignorance during my lifetime. Its no wonder morals and standards and respect have virtually vanished. Gosh! I sound just like my grandmother! Can this not be an inditement on your country rather than the faith? Places and people are different. Most bible students I know, know a great deal... ....about logos AND rhema The written and spoken word that must be read and heard in harmony. It's like watching a movie without sound. (or the other way round if one ignores logos) Nice pictures, but you only get half the story. __________________ http://www.hughwilson.com

11-30-2001, 12:09 AM	#22
250 Horus - Egyptian Sky God Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: either CA or MO Age: 43 Posts: 2,674	quote: Originally posted by Yorick: You know, I don't get this double standards stuff at all. I've been reprimanded in the past. If some of the guys are friends with me is that a crime? I actually listen more to a subtler rebuke from a friend. Rebukes are all relative. The most stinging word I ever got was from Absynthe. Bummer that. Could I perhaps ask in as gentle a tone as possible, that people get off my case????? Do we have so few hours in the day that we have to scan every moderators post to ascertain whether enough moderatorship has been applied to someone we disagree with? There is such a thing as emails!! Not every communication is public. I thought this forum was a place of enjoyment and communication, not poison laced arguments. If I wanted constant criticisms I'd get a wife. (Aussie wives are the most argumentative in the world according to a Singaporean paper I read yesterday... ) Anyhow, I've been posting in the I.W. BG forums of late - not here in ASB. Getting back to why I came here in the first place. [img]smile.gif[/img] Yorick, I am sorry, it is crime to have friends thats right, damnit. give him a break. I dont see the freaking point of this all. some people make me sick

11-30-2001, 01:57 AM	#23
KHaN Drow Warrior Join Date: June 21, 2001 Location: the not to distant future, Posts: 250	Maybe some people are confused about the fact that this is a moderated board. If you want anything goes type posting try MSN Slate. I've been blunt and mean in the past and let my personal views on people here be known without mincing words. Hey if I can behave anyone can [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] Memnoch you are doing a great job, I think you are the most level-headed mod I've seen on a forum. For what it's worth GJ. __________________

11-30-2001, 03:22 AM	#24
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	quote: Originally posted by KHaN: Maybe some people are confused about the fact that this is a moderated board. If you want anything goes type posting try MSN Slate. I've been blunt and mean in the past and let my personal views on people here be known without mincing words. Hey if I can behave anyone can [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img] Memnoch you are doing a great job, I think you are the most level-headed mod I've seen on a forum. For what it's worth GJ. Thanks, mate, it's good to be thanked once in a while. [img]smile.gif[/img] Your self-control has been admirable, I have to take my hat off to you. It's often more mature to step back and let things slide than to jump in, no holds barred. Say hi to Moni for me. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________

11-30-2001, 07:42 AM	#25
Silver Cheetah Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 1,781	quote: Originally posted by 250: Yorick, I am sorry, it is crime to have friends thats right, damnit. give him a break. I dont see the freaking point of this all. some people make me sick Sorry you're not feeling well, 250. Suggest you get yourself a sickbag, - very handy when one is feeling nauseous. I'd lend you mine - unfortunately, it's full to overflowing....... __________________

11-30-2001, 08:09 AM	#26
Fljotsdale Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England Age: 88 Posts: 2,859	quote: Originally posted by ladyzekke: I liked your post there F, but seeing that you are an athiest, must wonder... ?? You believe Jesus was a great man? Does not match up with being an athiest. Please I hope you weren't posting a spiteful sarcastic jab at Yorick. I'm figuring I'm misunderstanding you most likely, so just maybe rephrase what you meant so I can understand more clearly? Ladyzekke - I meant every word of my post. Yes, I AM atheist, but that does not mean I have to denigrate Jesus! All the evidence indicates that he was a real person and the gospels show him to have been a man of great integrity, passion, and compassion. I admire and like him and try to follow his way of life and teachings to the best of my limited ability. I'm not specially good at it! But, imo, he was a man. Imo, the bible and Jesus himself, indicate that he was NOT and never will be, GOD. I trust the bible as a reliable RELGIOUS and SOCIAL history of the Jews and early followers of Jesus. I believe that if you accept Jesus as the fulfillment of bible prophecy you have to reject any belief in evolution of the human race and ACCEPT as truth the opening chapters of the bible (Adam & Eve). I am not prepared to do that. Genuine believers, of whatever faith, who earnestly strive to live by the high standards of their faith are, to my mind, admirable. It takes courage and high morals to be a footstep follower of Jesus, and those who do their utmost to follow his standards are worth a great deal to the human race. As for making a spiteful or sarcastic jab at Yorick - no. Why should I? I say what I believe, always (well - mostly. I'm far from perfect, lol! I have been known to tell what are called 'white lies', and I am sometimes 'economical' in the amount of a truth I tell). I will definitely laugh at people who believe any sort of thing without bothering to check on whether it is true (not just religion, anything); and people who have the facts in front of their eyes and don't choose to see it annoy me into jumping rage - but I appreciate that from your side it looks like I am doing the same!. Which is why Yorick and I got so infuriated with each other at times in our religious discussions! But we did not fall out over religion and I have neither the inclination nor a reason to make fun of him. Clarified? [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ I\'m your imaginary friend.

11-30-2001, 08:25 AM	#27
Fljotsdale Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England Age: 88 Posts: 2,859	quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Can this not be an inditement on your country rather than the faith? Places and people are different. Most bible students I know, know a great deal... ....about logos AND rhema The written and spoken word that must be read and heard in harmony. It's like watching a movie without sound. (or the other way round if one ignores logos) Nice pictures, but you only get half the story. Darn! Blasted thing only picked up part of what you wrote.... I think. I'll check in a minute..... Anyway.... yes, of course it is the country, to a certain extent. More specifically, the education system and the fact that people have stayed away from church in droves since WW2. It wouldn't matter so much if we had still taught our children to have the standards religion preached...... honesty, integrity, sexual morality, respect for fellow humans.... etc. But also, partly the religion IS to blame.... not the 'the faith' but the churches/priests/pastors/popes/archbishops etc, because it was becoming increasingly clear to people that they themselves did not live according to what they taught. I was brought up as a RC and my ignorance of the bible was stunning, though my knowledge of church 'fairy tales' was vast! I also observed the hypocrisy of nuns and priests at first hand. I was not alone in that. After WW2, people were less inclined to overlook such things, and more inclined to use their own judgement. No bad thing either! But they chucked out the baby with the bathwater, imo. Here is the other bit of your post[b]: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: In this case it's the mockers who have no knowledge of what Jesus "taught". He only taught 11 or so tenets. What he did is why people follow him. Perfection is unattainable. A Christian is forgiven, not perfect. I thought that was what I said! About the mockers having no knowledge, I mean. No, no-one is perfect. The christian is just supposed to try harder! When Jesus rebuked his disciples it was clear he expected them to alter the behaviour he rebuked them for. Yes, he forgave may falls on their part, but anyone who has read the whole of the NT, as I know you have, will see that eventually they DID learn to behave in a way acceptable to Jesus. I always remember what he said to the woman taken in adultery as well.... 'Go your way and sin no more.' A person cannot claim to be christian if they continually commit 'sin' in the expectation that they will be forgiven. For example, in Revelation Jesus shows that liars and adulterers and fornicators will end up in 'the lake of fire'. Yet many who claim to be christian, including clergymen, continually practice those things. It makes me wonder if they truly believe the bible teaching on these things? __________________ I\'m your imaginary friend.

11-30-2001, 08:55 AM	#28
KHaN Drow Warrior Join Date: June 21, 2001 Location: the not to distant future, Posts: 250	quote: Originally posted by Memnoch: Your self-control has been admirable, I have to take my hat off to you. It's often more mature to step back and let things slide than to jump in, no holds barred. Say hi to Moni for me. [img]smile.gif[/img] Your welcome bro...and your right about backing off. It takes a bigger person to back away from a fight (specially a good one [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ) something I wasn't taught when I was growing up. I admire people who can. I'll tell Moni hi but I don't know if she will hear me we are both so completely addicted to Wiz8 [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img] that I'm looking into getting his/hers IV bags...eating dinner takes to long...important minutes that could be spent on gametime! __________________

11-30-2001, 09:03 AM	#29
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	F, I think you have to accept that both of you fell out over religion - Yorick did, at least. No fault of either of you - it's a very divisive topic to explore in depth, even if done in person. That's why I never talk about religion or politics in depth - because I don't know how the other person is reacting to what I'm saying. I think it would be best if both of you dropped the religion debate. You must both be sick of repeating yourselves by now. Surely you know each others' point of view to the most minute detail and know that no amount of futile debate will cause each of you to change your minds. All you will both do is get on the carousel once again. __________________

11-30-2001, 09:26 AM	#30
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	quote: Originally posted by KHaN: Your welcome bro...and your right about backing off. It takes a bigger person to back away from a fight (specially a good one [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ) something I wasn't taught when I was growing up. I admire people who can. But you've managed to do it, and for that I respect you. And I'm not just saying that - I mean that. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________

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