Is spanking a child inappropriate? (opinions)

[johnny]

We've had a topic like this before some time ago, and it caused quite a stir back then. I haven't changed my view on matters since. Kids can be real terrorists sometimes, and if all you're gonna do is say stuff like "don't do that, you know you're not allowed", you're up for for a very unpleasant period of parenthood.

Like i said, some kids can be real devils, and it wouldn't harm them to be spanked if they step out of line.

[Timber Loftis]

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

I will be spanking my child -- unfortunately not in public, since that gets you arrested these days. I remember the good ole' days, when, as Jeff Foxworthy notes, the only real reason to go to Wal Mart was to watch people spank their kids.

My father spanked me. He would say "you did x,y, and z wrong, and I am going to spank you for it. It is your punishment, and wrong things get punished." Then, I'd get to pick out my favorite switch or belt. Explaining it and being completely reasonable is the important part.

I simply think that at a certain age, kids respond better to immediate painful/embarrassing (and embarrassment is a BIG tool -- and a proper one) than they do to either emotional guilt-rendering or long-term consequences (e.g. no TV for a week, grounded to your room for 2 days, etc.). Now, after a certain age, I think spanking becomes less of a tool, and these other long-term consequences work better. But, when they're young all they understand is a good whack on the buttocks. MHO.

[Paladin2000]

Spanking, yes. I did spank my 3 year old daughter and I will spank her again. Sometimes she does understand that it is strictly prohibited for her to do something but she still insist on doing it. (yeah, she inherited my stubborness)

Most of these times, I would loose my temper and simply yell at her but on some occassion, I would slap her on the hand or pinch her hand. Then She would cry and go to her mother, only to return moments later and apologize to me. See? She knows that she did something wrong.

Anyway, I can't say that I am very proud of doing so but sometimes people loose temper and my daughter really drives me crazy sometimes. If she continues to do this for another few years, I swear that I would die of a stroke or heart attack before the age of 40.

[ 08-09-2003, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Paladin2000 ]

[Faceman]

I think spanking is "inappropriate" for several reasons but I don't think it's necessarily "wrong".

1. Spanking is a form of punishment and
Let's face it anti-authoritarian education does not work so some time you will need to punish your child but
2. Spanking is not the best punishment because it teaches you kid that destructive violence is an appropriate tool in situations where one of two people wields supreme power - when I say destructive violence I mean spanking a child afterwards for breaking a vase opposed to firmly (and maybe hurtfully) grabbing him/her before he/she can do so.
3. there are other forms of effective short term punishments like assigning immediate chores or giving them a long tough and boring talk.
4. IF you spank your child IMHO you should make sure it "hurts you more than him". In fact this is true for every punishment. It gets out of hand exactly when you slap/spank/ground/punish your kid not to educate it but to take personal revenge and may it be a soft thoughtless slap in a second just because he/she drove you so mad.
I know from my personal experience in teaching that you can get rough (not physically, I'm talking 'bout yelling and extra-homework) with a kid and it works as long as you take no personal pleasure in it.

[Aelia Jusa]

My parents smacked me. I don't think I'm emotionally scarred from the experience, though I won't be smacking any children that I have. I think it involves an element of fear and humiliation that I think is unnecessary. I also think the worst time to smack your child is when you're angry or frustrated since you're likely to unintentionally be more forceful than you would mean to be. Then later when you're calmer, smacking mightn't seem necessary. There are many ways to discipline children without smacking - my parents used them too - sending me to my room, withholding treats. Even knowing your parents are totally disappointed in you is pretty effective for lots of people. Now I wouldn't say parents who do smack their children are *wrong* for doing so, but for me, it's not the way I want to go.

Originally posted by Mr. Mopery: Is it negative reinforcement?

No it isn't . Just for the record, since I see confusion about operant conditioning theory and reinforcement/punishment all the time, I'll just briefly explain the terms and what they mean. Reinforcement is something you do to encourage a certain behaviour. Punishment is something you do to discourage certain behaviour. Positive means to add something to the situation, negative means to take something away from the situation. So then, positive reinforcement is adding something to encourage behaviour - giving treats if your child does some chore. Negative reinforcement is taking something away to encourage behaviour - saying your child doesn't have to do their chores if they do all their homework. Positive punishment is adding something to discourage behaviour - smacking your child if they do something you want them not to do. Negative punishment is taking something away to discourage behaviour - not letting them watch TV if they've been naughty [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Mr. Mopery]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Fair play, and I think I agree for the most point. But I know that many people believe in child raising without raising a hand. If I recall correctly, Scandinavians often practice this kind of child rearing. However, I've been a place or two in Scandinavia where the kids ran riot and nobody seemed to care.

Then again, I ran into a Canadian couple and their young daughter in Brussels once, sitting close to my friends in one of those smooshed together cafes. The girl was misbehaving a bit, unsurprisingly I thought given the environment, and the parents seemed embarrassed. They apologized to us. And then I heard the mother lean in to the daughter and say (and I quote), "if you don't start behaving, that man is going to get angry and hit you."

She was talking about me. I can STILL remember the disgust I felt when I heard that.

I guess I'd rather see kids running around crazily than kids afraid that strangers are going to hit them unless they're quiet.

[Skunk]

"Spare the rod, spoil the child."
Oh really???

Better still:
"Spare the rod but nurture the child

When you physically assault your child, you are confirming that you, as a parent have failed. Chances are you failed because you were too busy doing something else to spend enough time with your child to explain what is right and what is wrong. Furthermore, other alternatives are more effective.

Ask a child which he/she prefers:
"A smack or being grounded for two weeks - I bet you that they take the smack"

To those folks who are happy to use physical violence on their child, I have a question:
"If you make a mistake/error of judgement at work, would you accept a punishment of a 'physicall pain' from your boss? If not, why not?"

[johnny]

I'm sorry Skunk, but that's the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. Like i said, some kids are real little devils,and if you let them they destroy your house (i've seen it happen), and disrespect the parents even more in the future when no action is being taken. A thwack in the bottocks isn't the same thing as beating a kid up, and it sure has it's effect. You have to draw the line somewhere. If you don't draw a line, then you're REALLY a bad parent, and the kid COULD grow up into a very unpleasant character to be around with.

[Paladin2000]

For all the single guys/gals out there, all I can say is .... "wait till you have kids and have them drive you nuts."

Then see if you are able to control your temper by not spanking (or hitting) them even once.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Paladin2000: For all the single guys/gals out there, all I can say is .... "wait till you have kids and have them drive you nuts." Then see if you are able to control your temper by not spanking (or hitting) them even once.

Why do you assume that the people who are anti-spanking have no children and the ones that are pro-spanking do? Johnny argues for spanking, yet to my knowledge is not raising children (correct me if I'm wrong Johnny!!) and there are also plenty of families in which the parents do not spank on principle. Also, you suggest people who spank their children do so because they "cannot control their tempers". Yet I've seen many people argue for spanking as a punishment, but only doing it AFTER THEY'VE COOLED DOWN. They agreed that hitting a child out of frustration is wrong, and the spanking should be applied cool-headedly.
So the "wait till you have kids of your own" argument doesn't hold water, nor does the uncontrollable temper one.

I'm not gonna get too mixed up in this can of worms any further, BTW, the last debate on it is still very fresh in my mind.

[ 08-10-2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]